Several of you have already begun reading this one and told me you liked it — hopefully you all will!
As with your Summer reading assignment, for Winter you are required to read J. D. Salinger’s iconic novel, The Catcher in the Rye, pick 5 quotations that strike you as interesting in some way or another and discuss them in the comment section. You are then required to respond to 2 writing prompts listed below (and complete answers will consist of several well-written paragraphs). Finally, you must respond to 2 of your peers responses, being sure to name them in your response so we all know who you’re responding to.
This means that, altogether, you’re responsible for 9 postings due by the time we return from the Winter Break on 5 January 2009.
(And for those of you who feel this is too much work, you’ll be happy to know that I’ll be doing all the same postings as you!)
Enjoy! and Happy New Year!
SGW
Writing Prompts (from SparkNotes):
1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
2. The novel is structured around Holden’s encounters and interactions with other people. Does any pattern seem to emerge, or does anything change in his interactions as the novel progresses? How do Holden’s encounters with adults, children, women, and his peers evolve as the novel progresses?
3. Throughout the book, Holden longs for intimacy with other human beings. Discuss the different types of relationships Holden attempts and the different types of intimacy in the book. What is the role of sexuality in The Catcher in the Rye? How do Holden’s sexual relationships differ from his nonsexual encounters?
4. The most ambiguous encounter in the book is Holden’s night at Mr. Antolini’s apartment. What do you make of Mr. Antolini’s actions? Was he making a pass at Holden? What is the significance of his actions, and how do they relate to his role as someone trying to prevent Holden from “taking a fall”?
5. Holden often behaves like a prophet or a saint, pointing out the phoniness and wickedness in the world around him. Is Holden as perfect as he wants to be? Are there instances where he is phony and full of hypocrisy? What do these moments reveal about his character and his psychological problems?
242 Comments
December 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm
“My brother Allie…He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine, on July 18, 1946. You’d have liked him” (38).
The story that Holden told about his brother was very touching. I would’ve never knew that Holden had a little brother. In the beginning of the book, he didn’t mention anything about deceased brother. I think it affects him greatly, but he holds everything inside. He must be a strong person despite his personality.
December 26, 2008 at 6:08 am
“It isn’t very serious. I have this tiny little tumor on the brain” (58).
(When he was talking with Ernest’s mother on the train). Man, Holden is so funny. I think he is a great liar, no wonder he is so likable. I wonder why does he lie so much. Does it help him hide his identity and who he really is?
December 27, 2008 at 3:22 am
My response to writing prompt number two:
There seems to be a pattern with Holden’s encounters. Holden’s first few encounter’s are with people who know nothing about him. The further along in the book an encounter is, the more they seem to know about Holden personally, or he chooses to open up to them. Sometimes it’s even both. Holden also goes from finding many people annoying to find them amusing.
December 27, 2008 at 3:26 am
My response to writing prompt number 5:
Holden is about as far from a perfect as it gets. He can never make up his mind, and makes things out to be more difficult than it’s supposed to be. Holden is as phony as he calls everyone around him. He pretended to be into Sally when he truely wasn’t at first. Holden also said he couldn’t stand Luce a couple of times, yet he was smiling in his face all the while.
December 27, 2008 at 3:32 am
My response to MTA’s comment from:
December 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I agree, because that was a really sad story. It’s a shame that Holden still feels guilty about not bringing Allie to the movie theatre and expresses his guilt when he’s drunk. I thought it was pretty neat that Allie had all of those poems written on his baseball glove. I reminds me of something I would do too.
December 27, 2008 at 3:35 am
My response to MTA’s comment from:
December 26, 2008 at 6:08 am
That is completely true. Holden is a great liar and one of the biggest liar’s I’ve come by in a book. It really annoys me how Holden always has to turn a situation into a dramatic one. For example, he got “shot” at the bar and in the hotel room. Holden needs to grow up and act more mature. Personally, I feel that Holden loves to play the victom and wants everyone’s sympathy.
December 27, 2008 at 3:56 am
“I certaintly like to hear him play, but sometimes you feel like turning his goddam piano over” (80).
I found that quote to be so funny. I was really cracking up when I read it. Infact, I even had to call my boyfriend and tell him about it. Unfortunately, he didn’t see the humor in it as I did, but that’s too bad. I love that Holden has a sense of humor. I laughed so much while reading this book. It really made this book a joy to read.
December 27, 2008 at 4:03 am
“I told you ten times, I don’t own you a cent. I already gave her the five-”(101).
I kind of felt bad for Holden. The man really did say that it would just be five dollars, so it was unfair for him to lie and change the price to ten. Then again, Holden had no buisness agreeing to sleep with a prostitute. I bet getting beat up in the whole process really taught him a lesson. I was proud of Holden for sticking up for himself. Maybe he isn’t a “yellow” after all.
December 27, 2008 at 4:08 am
“We could live somewhere with a brook and all and, later on, we could get married or something” (132).
Holden really jumped the gun with Sally. This is their first date in a really long time, and he is already talking about marriage. Holden took it to the extreme. I understand getting caught up in the moment, but that was just out there. What I do understand is why he would feel that way. I don’t like living in New York either, but then again I would never think of running away to live in a cabin all my life.
December 27, 2008 at 4:13 am
“…in the dark and all, and he was sort of petting or patting me on the goddam head” (192).
I really did not see this coming. I would freak out too if a someone were to be touching me in a perverty way. What was really going through that teacher’s mind? I was extremely shocked when the teacher continued to act as if he was just not sitting in the dark patting Holden on the head. I don’t blame Holden for running out and even leaving his tie behind. I just could not wait for Holden to get away from that house!
December 27, 2008 at 4:17 am
“I felt pretty hungry as soon as I had a cigarette” (105).
What is up with Holden and cigarette? How would he ever live without them. I think that smoking cigarettes is a nasty habit, so I even disliked it when I read about it in a book. I truely wonder how many cigarettes Holden had throughout the entire book. To make things worse Holden is only sixteen. I couldn’t believe it when Phoebe told her mother she smoked and she didn’t even get in trouble! Holden’s parents keep proving the fact that they may have some truely horrible parenting skills.
December 27, 2008 at 7:41 pm
“I saw one guy, a gray-haired, very distinguished-looking guy with only his shorts on…took out all these women’s clothes, and put them on” (61).
This is really weird and freaky. For some reason it kind of reminds me of the 1980’s New york City. The drug war, violence, graffiti(ed) trains, hookers and cross dressers loitering in Times Square and NYPD officers are afraid to to their jobs. This scene in the book is like a movie. Maybe one of those Steven Seagal movies like Above the Law or Taxi Driver- something like that.
December 27, 2008 at 9:21 pm
“Anyway I kept walking around the room, waiting for this prostitute to show up” (93).
I have a feeling Holden C. is a sex addict. He talks about doing it all the time. There was the time where is kept on breaking his codes or rules, Jane, and now a prostitute. Why is he going to have a prostitute anyway? Is it because it is cheap ? or maybe he just wants some sex, considering it has been a while.
Is he mentally unstable? Is everything he’s saying a lie?
December 27, 2008 at 9:55 pm
“There was this record I wanted to get for Phoebe, called ‘Little Shirley Beans.’ It was a very hard record to get” (144).
To probably many kids, Holden is not the best person, some may even consider him as a prick. But he does care and have feelings. He cares about his baby sister Phoebe and his long deceased brother Allie. Holden always complimented on his siblings. Damn, he’s even have the effort to find a hard to get record for his sister. Beyond all the harsh comments, cursing, and tough personality, he’s just a sensitive kind-hearted teen.
December 27, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Response to Nineteen Hugs
Cigs
You are so right about the cigarettes that Holden smokes. He’s too young and had one too many. I think it’s from academic pressure, family, Allie’s death, transferring schools, etc. I don’t blame him. I think the parents do have some issues. Perhaps a dysfunctional family?
December 27, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Response to Nineteen hugs
Marriage
Your right, the two are like the traditional teenage couples that runs away from home and get married in a Las Vegas chapel with a Priest dressed as Elvis Presley. It’s always that saying, “We can get married, and I’ll start working and save up. In a a year we’ll have enough to buy a new house” (in an eager tone)
Not going to happen.
December 28, 2008 at 12:34 am
MTA dude you are so right Holden is one of the best fictional liars ever. I think that he lies because something in his life makes him sad or because he feels like he is missing out on something bigger. Whatever it is Holden is just one of those guys who you can not help but like. We can in a way all relate to him because as the book goes on Holden grows up and learns from his mistakes (sometimes it just takes a little extra time.)
December 28, 2008 at 1:36 am
Writing Prompt 5
Holden does comment on everything and points out the phonies around him. Though I don’t think he is a saint or a prophet. He finds out the imperfect aspect of the people around him, each and everyone of them. Believe it or not, Holden is a hypocrite. Which makes him a phony as well. During his stay in New york, he asked Old Luce out for a drink. When they met, Old Luce got annoyed at Holden and wondering when will he grow up because he kept on asking inane questions. To Old Luce Holden is like Ackley.
I think Holden might have a split personality…
Clearly, Holden have a problem, even if he doesn’t have a split personality. Anyway he’s just a kid that thinks too much. I kind of feel bad for him, for some reason.
December 28, 2008 at 2:48 am
Writing Prompt 4
Wen Holden arrived to Mr. Antolini’s apartment they spoke together. Mr. Antolini said that Holden might fall apart if he continues along this path. A young man’s world is to be a student and educate one’s self. I guess he made Holden realize what he has to do. He’s helping Holden get a hold of his life and his values.
In the middle of the night Mr. Antolini was stroking Holden’s head while he’s sleeping. I don’t know why he did that. A dude shouldn’t be stoke another dude’s head in the dark sitting next to them on the floor while they’re is asleep. I don’t know what he’s up to, but that is nasty.
I guess he was making a pass at Holden.
December 29, 2008 at 5:18 pm
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It’s awful.” (16)
Although Holden admits that he is a liar and that he lies for absolutely no reason at all, it almost seems as if he is proud of himself. He lied to Mr. Spencer about where he was going because he was getting annoyed with the conversation. I believe that later on in this book his special “skill” of being such a terrific liar is going to backfire on him.
December 29, 2008 at 5:43 pm
“You remember when I said before that Ackley was a slob in his personal habits? Well, so was Stradlater, but in a different way. Stradlater was more of a secret slob.” (27).
Holden judges alot of people. His parents, Mr. Spencer and his wife, Ackley, Stradlater, even Pencey itself. Holden mentioned before to Ackley that Stradlater is a very generous guy. Ackley claimed he didnt like Stradlater because he’s conceited. Holden out it out there that the real reason is because Stradlater told him the truth about himself and not brushing his teeth. He didn’t like the truth so he took it out on Stralater and everyone else. It’s also ironic that although Stradlater seems nice and neat on the outside he is a “secret slob”. The same person that was telling Ackley to brush his teeth, shaves with dirty razors. This just goes to show you that people show you what they want you to see. Especially those peopla who everyone seems to like.
December 30, 2008 at 5:19 pm
“In new york, boy money really talks-I’m not kidding”
This quote shows a characteristic of new york that most of us know already. He talks about the idea of money and new york is always about money. That is one thing that will never change. He also talks about if you have money you can do just about anything. Which also brings up the idea of power. because in new york if you have a lot of money you may also have a lot of power.
December 31, 2008 at 5:19 pm
responce to MTA
I do agree that it’s almost like a scene from a movie. I even thought about drag queens. Or people who dont know if they want to be a male or female. This also shows that yu can find almost any type of person in new york.
December 31, 2008 at 5:22 pm
responce to nineteen hugs
I do believe that people jump to getting marry. I think people are missing the love and affection that they want so the moment they find someone who gives them a little bit of that they jump on it.
I think he should take his time and not rush anything.
December 31, 2008 at 7:43 pm
MTA I agree with you Holden is the best fictional liar ever. I think he lies because he feels like he is missing something .
December 31, 2008 at 10:31 pm
“I’m thinking…Uh. Jean Gaallagher.” Boy I nearly dropped dead when he said that. “Jane Gallagher,” I said…I damn near dropped dead.”(31)
Who is this Jane Gallagher girl? Is this someone that he used to date? A crush maybe? He seems to really like her because he remembers that they used to play checkers together and how he met her. He just kept going on and on about this girl that Stardlater was about to go on a date with. I would have thought that he would have been upset about it or at least go down and see her since he asked where she was. He did seem a bit upset later on though. I think that this shows that Holden isn’t always a “everyone sucks and people are horrible beings” kind of guy. That he can actually have some type of fun that doesn’t include being a jerk or making someone feel stupid.
January 1, 2009 at 1:47 am
response to jazmine
I believe that he’s right. One thing that this country and other countries have power on is money. If you’re not rich it’s hard to control something or someone. Money is power.
January 1, 2009 at 1:56 am
response to NineteenHugs
what you say about how holden’s parents can be true but that doesnt happen only in books. In real life parents let their kids smoke, drink and don’t say nothing toward it. I think it’s wrong but some parents don’t care on that behalf.
January 1, 2009 at 3:59 pm
” I was surrounded by jerks. I’m not kidding.At this other tiny table,right to my left, practically on top of me, there was a funny-looking guy and this funny-looking girl” (pg 85)
To me it seams like he always has something bad to say about a person. Everyone he sees he calls them a name or points out little things that gets him mad. To me he seams very observant when he looks at a person or even talks to them. I feel as if he has a lot a hate or disslike because he doesn’t seam to like anyone but his little sister and his childhood friend.
January 1, 2009 at 4:05 pm
prompt # 5
I dont think he is perfect, no one is. He is not a saint i just think he observes his surrondings and realizes a lot of things that other people may not take the time to see about another person. I do think that he thinks hes perfect because he can point out everyones flaws but his own. He always talks about someone who he may not even know, so who is he to judge people?
January 1, 2009 at 5:07 pm
prompt #4
I think Mr. Antolini was drinking a lot and the liquor got to him. I think he felt close to holden since he was his teacher and knew him for a while. I felt he was giving him a speech to do better for him self and stop letting him slip up or “fall”. I think he was acting as if holden was almost like a son to him. He’s giving him guidence and wants him to do better. So when he saw him on the bed he got a head of him self and was patting him on the head. I’m not sure if he ment to be a pervert, it was a little random.
January 1, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I ran all the way to the main gate, and then I waited a second till I got my breath.
I like this quote because its like going to a gate and trying to get a new life.
January 1, 2009 at 6:01 pm
I agree with MTA because it saying that it’s very hard for kids to believe in Holden mainly the kids, because he’s a little older than everyone and very diffrent but doesn’t show that hes kind.
January 1, 2009 at 8:53 pm
“Practically the whole school except me was there, and scrawny and faggy on the Saxon Hall side.” (p.2,2)
This quote shows that Holden has a bad attitude for whatever the reason may be, also he has no school spirit which could be one of the reasons on why he’s so grumpy all the time.
January 1, 2009 at 8:56 pm
“I like to be somewhere at least where you can see a few girls around once in a while.” (p.3,1)
I think Holden is a better person when he’s surrounded or in the presence of a woman as he’s stating in the quote…. i hope this is true.
January 1, 2009 at 8:59 pm
“I was flunking four subjects and not applying myself.”
This is somewhat similar to the things I was thinking about over the summer because I realized I had a bad year last year and I needed to come back strong this year and I have lived up to my word so far.
January 1, 2009 at 9:05 pm
“One of the reasons I left Elkton Hills was because I was surrounded by phonies.” (p.13,4)
I think when Holden says “Phonies” he’s saying that he didn’t like people who weren’t real and upfront with him about stuff, and at which I can relate to him because I don’t like people who act fake around me and aren’t real friends because those are the same people that are sneaky in the end.
January 1, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Writing Prompt #2:
Holden’s encounters and outlooks on people in this novel are somewhat strange in a sense that he has split thoughts on both men and women. On (p.2,2), Holden uses terms like “scrawny” and “faggy” to describe the guys at the football game he was at. But on the other hand, Holden meets a girl named Selma Thurmer who at which seems to change his whole attitude as he shows interests in Selma by stirring up a conversation with her, and then in the end says to himself “I like her.” (p.3,1).
January 1, 2009 at 9:13 pm
The quote that Jazmine chose on p.85 is really interesting because I said in one of my quotes that Holden talking to a girl seems to change his whole attitude towards people, but in that quote I guess it seems like nobody can change Holden’s attitude.
January 1, 2009 at 9:16 pm
To respond to MTA regarding Holden having feelings for his baby sister Phoebe, If Holden really has feelings as you make him out to have then why can’t he just show that to everyone else instead of always hurting other people and having something bad to say?
January 1, 2009 at 9:21 pm
To respond to MTA regarding the quote on p.38 about his dead brother, I think that is one of the main reasons on why I now understand why he’s so mad most of the time because once you lose someone very close to you, it could affect you for however long possible. You referred to Holden as a “prick” but you have to ask yourself what would you do if you lost someone like that? But at the same time, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you hvae to be an ass most of the time though.
January 1, 2009 at 9:24 pm
I agree with Nineteen hugs about her quote on p.105 with Holden and the cigarettes becuase despite the fact that he’s only sixteen years old, cigarettes aren’t the only way to get rid of stress if that’s what he plans on doing by smoking cigarettes. I think he should go out and meet a girl and build up from that.
January 1, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Writing Prompt #4
The situation with Holden and Mr. Antolini’s encounter inside Mr. Anolini’s apartment is very strange because he was giving a brief lesson on how to turn your life around and trying to encourage Holden to stop slipping up in his classes and get back on track with his life. Although, Mr. Antolini was drinking alot so I think he just got caught up in the moment and the liquor got the best of him and that’s what made it look weird for both him and Holden. But I don’t think he was trying to be a pervert or hit on Holden.
January 1, 2009 at 9:37 pm
“Oh, I feel some concern for my future, all right.” (p.14, 2)
I don’t really think that Holden really has concern regarding his future because he’s flunking classes, thinking about dropping out of school, and his whole attitude just shows that he doesn’t care which is going to cost him in the end because he’s not going to live a good life without school and no friends to help him neither.
January 2, 2009 at 1:53 am
“You don’t do one damn thing the way your supposed to. I mean it. Not one damn thing.” (41), I believe that this quote basically demonstrates what type of a childhood Holden had and what type of message he is trying to express in the novel to convey his childhood to the reader and the audience.
January 2, 2009 at 2:01 am
“You don’t do one damn thing the way you’re supposed to. I mean it. Not one damn thing”. This quote struck me as interesting because Holden is demonstrating the kind of childhood that he had to the reader. He conveys his childhood in the most significant way possible way so that the reader can have a specified idea of his childhood.
January 2, 2009 at 2:55 am
Holden didn’t really have any help when he was growing up. “Don’t knock yourself out or anything, but just make it descriptive as hell. Okay?” Holden, not having any support or mentor growing up….. this lead towards him getting others to do his homework for him.
January 2, 2009 at 3:01 am
Holden really had no respect for himself or for others. “She really was a moron”.(71) This is relevant that Holden wasn’t really respectful and he basically treated everyone the same, whether male or female, with no exceptions.
January 2, 2009 at 3:09 am
“I couldn’t think of anything to talk about, though. I thought of asking her how she to be a prostitute and all, but I was scared to ask her. She probably wouldn’t told me anyway”.(95) i first and foremost feel that Holden had no respect for himself. Holden, using prostitutes, as a way to find his sexuality is no way to treat yourself. Not knowing what one can catch by messing around with prostitutes is a fate much more worse than death for Holden and his promiscuous lifestyles.
January 2, 2009 at 3:19 am
Response to writing prompt#3;
I believe as I discussed in one of my five quotations, about Holden’s sexual experiences he has no respect for himself to have one night stands with the prostitutes that he did actually had sexual intercourse with. I also strongly feel as though sexuality plays a crucial role in this novel because every time Holden longed for what he called “intimacy” he would demonstrate it in an obvious way to the reader that he had no respect for himself by sleeping with prostitutes.
January 2, 2009 at 3:35 am
Response to writing prompt#5;
From the reader’s,(me) perspective Holden may have “behaved” as a saint at times however in reality he was no type of saint. Holden would place himself in the most compromising situations. Of course his harsh childhood has a lot to do with his setbacks in life.
January 2, 2009 at 3:44 am
Response to peer Kb2191;
I feel the same way that you do for Holden because in the end either his fate will catch up to him or he will just learn from his mistakes the difficult manner.This quote definately demonstrates the essence of how Holden feels about himself and his future.
January 2, 2009 at 3:50 am
Response to Flaca;
I actually believe what you said about some parents and the way that they bring up their children. Letting them do as they please, especially at the young age that Holden is, is certainly not the way to bring up children in a society and expect them to be the best teens or people that they can be.
January 2, 2009 at 6:33 pm
In response to KB2191’s response regarding the quote from p.38, I believe what MTA was trying to say is quite reasonable. He’s trying to say that despite all the loses of important individuals in his live, he is a strong person for holding all that sorrow within him. His personality may be compared to a “prick” but a prick is just a stubborn person who stays strong for his own beliefs. MTA have only said that about him as a positive comment. And how does someone losing a dear one, cause him to be a prick? Well I don’t know because I didn’t become one when my grandfather and grandmother died.
January 2, 2009 at 6:37 pm
In response to MTA’s quote in p.58, from what I think from personal experiences; he may also lie for friendship and humor. I have experience certain times when lying(a negative action) leads to people actually liking you. Although you’re being an ass, some people don’t take it as serious as others. This causes unusual friendships and fun to occur. But I do agree with how he can use lies to cover himself up. Because I do that most of the time and it’s quite more effective than it seems.
January 2, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Writing prompt # 4
Liquor is a strong substance. If you consume too much, it causes you to do stupid or unnatural stuff. I guess that’s hat caused Mr. Antolini’s strange behavior near the end of the scene. But one thing’s for sure, kids shouldn’t be going to adult’s homes alone even if he or she just wants to give a lecture. That’s not right, and it’s definitely not right in our current society.
January 2, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Writing prompt # 5
First off, Holden is nowhere near a prophet or a saint. Prophets don’t go around commenting or critizing any one they encounter. But Holden’s that type of person. All he is, is a young boy who has a lot in his mind. The more he thinks the more weird other people seem to him. Just because they act or do something, Holden has a lack of knowledge about doesn’t mean they’re phonies. It is true, many people live their life being liars and cheaters but that’s how society works. Like look at how he acts around certain genders. If he has interest in them, he treats them like completely different people. The only phony is him; he’s the only weird person in this whole fricking story. More like a freak if you ask me.
January 2, 2009 at 8:13 pm
“He’s so good he’s almost corny, in fact. I don’t exactly know what I mean by that, but I mean it. I certainly like to hear him play, but sometimes you feel like turning his goddam piano over. I think it’s because sometimes when he plays, he sounds like the kind of guy that won’t talk to you unless you’re a big shot.” (p.80)
This great example of how he thinks of everyone he sees or encounters with. He goes through this zone when he starts to have great knowledge about someone and exposed the negative side of everyone’s character. What does the piano got to do with anything? The only thing that strange is how freaky he makes himself seem as he comments on anyone’s action. It makes it seem, he thinks almost everyone around is inferior.
January 2, 2009 at 8:24 pm
“I’ve had quite a few opportunities to lose my virginity and all, but I’ve never got around to it yet. Something always happens. For instance — I came quite close to doing it a couple of times, though. One time in particular, I remember. Something went wrong – You never know whether they really want you to stop, or whether they’re just scared as hell or whatever.”
I find this passage, completely true. It seems like he’s telling it straight from a certain movie with the similar situation or somewhat. Its amazing how it can be compared to real life situations or even taken from these certain situations. But now we know, these events do exist in many relationships and its hard to get around with. But maybe that’s how society works and how people start to jump in to these common bandwagons.
January 2, 2009 at 8:46 pm
The page to the quote above is p.92. My laptop keyboard is crap, it deleted half of my response for no reason.
Throughout the whole story, there have been many short yet informative quotes. Some would be have to be “You don’t always have to get too sexy to get to know a girl” (p.76) “Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell” (p.113)
These quotes have many important meanings or messages behind each one. First one states that charm is not the only thing that would get a girl. It requires patience and other useful techniques. Second one talks about how money causes problems in the society. In capital countries like the US, money means everything. As we are a consumer country that can lead to economic crisis like the one now. These both contribute to how the society works nowadays.
January 2, 2009 at 8:54 pm
In in the story, Holden is shown as a person who comments on everyone who is around him. There are many quotes in the story that supports this and also goes against it too. Some examples would be “I hate actors. They never act like people. They just think they do” (p.117) and “Certain things they should stay the way they are. You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone. I know that’s impossible, but it’s too bad anyway” (p.122)
Holden states in the story that he doesn’t like actors because he thinks they can’t act like the actual people. And I agree with that, actors are only actors; they can never act like an actual in a real life situation. They can act “like” it but they can’t really do it if they’re not in that kind of situation. Which leads to the second quote, which he states that people should stay the same. But what should the people be expected to do if other people don’t like the way they are? This causes individuals to change and become who they’re not. So how can Holden say such a thing if he’s the type that calls people phonies?
January 2, 2009 at 9:17 pm
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (p.1x)
Although I couldn’t find the quote in the book, I found this quote extremely interesting. I still see this quote used quite often in the current society. It’s mostly used by the new generation of literary writers. One thing I have notice was how this quote relates to how Mr. Antolini told Holden to act up in school. The lecture in writing prompt 4 is somewhat related to how the teacher told Holden to play more by the rules. This quote shows how serious he taken that lecture.
January 2, 2009 at 11:54 pm
“All I need’s an audience. I’m an exhibitionists.” (pg.29)
I liked this quote because he sees him self as a diffrent person, and very fun to be around.
January 3, 2009 at 12:04 am
“I spent the whole night necking with a terrible phony named Anne Louise Sherman. Sex is something I just don’t understand. I swear to God I don’t ” (pg 63)
I find this quote funny and strange because of why the person will need make a phony name; is it because of a past life? Then i find it understanding that of not understanding sex.
January 3, 2009 at 12:06 am
I agree with KB2191’s quote “I was flunking four subjects and not applying myself.” because who wouldn’t think of the past and that it’s very similar to everyone.
January 3, 2009 at 12:13 am
“It was lousy in the park. It wasn’t too cold, but the sun wasn’t out and there didn’t look like there was anything in the park except dog crap and…” (pg. 115)
This quote is really interesting because why isn’t he at a hotel or a house or something like that ecause of him being in NY.
January 3, 2009 at 12:17 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.”
This quote is one of the most interesting ones just because it’s true. As weird as Mr. Spencer was what he said was true. Life is a game and most people play it by the rules. They go to school, college get a job later on get married have kids and die old. I would consider that the perfect life the whole white picket fence. But in reality not every ones life is like that people tend to bend the rules when it’s necessary to help them selves or someone they know out
January 3, 2009 at 12:18 am
“Almost every time somebody gives me a present, it ends up making me sad.”
I actually choose this quote because it was sort of funny. It reminds me of kids on Christmas day opening presents and everything they asked for is not there. Then of course what happens next is the child gets sad and then mad. Any one and everyone can relate to this no matter what day it was Christmas birthday even Easter. There is always that one person to give you a gift you just don’t like.
January 3, 2009 at 12:18 am
I’m always saying “Glad to’ve met you” to somebody I’m not at all glad I met. If you want to stay alive, you have to say that stuff, though.
That’s the way the world is you have to be “fake” at times and put on a show and a smile even when deep down inside your not really in the mood to. But at the end of the day it helps you out especially if you leave a good impression. To make it in the world you have to do things you really do not want to. Your actions now can help you in the future. If you’re going to be disrespectful even at a job you’ll never make it anywhere. That’s the reason why I chose this quote it can relate to real life. So I can actually understand where Holden is coming from.
January 3, 2009 at 12:19 am
“I’m sort of an atheist. I like Jesus and all, but I don’t care too much for most of the other stuff in the Bible. Take the Disciples, for instance. They annoyed the hell out of me, if you want to know the truth. They were all right after Jesus was dead and all, but while He was alive, they were about as much use to Him as a hole in the head. All they did was keep letting Him down. I like almost anybody in the Bible better than the Disciples. If you want to know the truth, the guy I like best in the Bible, next to Jesus, was that lunatic and all, that lived in the tombs and kept cutting himself with stones. I like him ten times as much as the Disciples, that poor bastard.”
I had to choose this quote because it’s funny and I can actually relate to what he is saying. Growing up in a catholic house you are told all these things about Jesus, learn about the 12 disciples etc. What Holden says is true the disciples were useless I didn’t see why Jesus needed them they were only a headache. Holden has a very open mind to catch on to something like that, but if you go around telling religious people that they’ll flip out on you. Just like Holden I don’t care too much for the other stuff in the bible. Yeah, I believe in Jesus but that’s about it when it comes to religion.
January 3, 2009 at 12:30 am
“You ever past by the lagoon in Central Park? Down by Central Park South? (pg. 81)
This is an interesting quote because he talks about the lagoon alot, and he talks about it in many diffrent places.
January 3, 2009 at 12:36 am
Response to jazmine quote
I agree I think he is very observant. He is so observant he can see the negative things about people as soon as he speaks to them. I dont think that he hates everyone he just misunderstood.
January 3, 2009 at 12:47 am
Writing Prompt #2:
When Holden encounters various people in the book, he feels very strange when he’s with them. Take a look at the beginning when he’s with his teacher annd he talking about diffrent things, then his other conversation with everyone else. He uses very diffrent terms and is some what shy.
January 3, 2009 at 12:57 am
Writing prompt # 5
Holden is like a prophet and a saint because he does help people, and that he does have alot of stuff on his mind. But a way he isn’t like that is when he criticizes what he or other people does. But as well as the way he acts shows him that he can be either a prophet and saint.
January 3, 2009 at 1:00 am
Response to MTA
I think Holden is the way he is because the lost of his brother. Losing someone that you are close with can change a persons personality. It mustve had a big effect on him. It made him to who he is thats is why he is so aangry and always has a negative comment to say about someone.
January 3, 2009 at 1:36 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” pg8
This quote stood out to me because people use it all the time in our society in songs.Especially rap.I actually think of life as a game as well.Anyways, this qoute shows how important the lecture was to Holden.
January 3, 2009 at 6:22 pm
“He was always yelling, outside class. It got on your nerves sometimes.” (pg. 7)
At this point I’m not sure what this book is about and i have no clue what might happen. This quote is just an example of Holden talking trash and gossiping to himself. So far all he does is gossip about different people.
January 3, 2009 at 6:34 pm
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (pg.
Holden just told old Spencer what Dr. Thurmer said to him. He told old Spencer in way that made it seem like he didn’t care about Dr. Thurmer’s advice. Then old Spencer said the same thing to Holden and Holden still blew it off. Holden’s stubborn attitude is the reason for him getting kicked out of school.
January 3, 2009 at 7:00 pm
“It’s funny. You don’t have to think too hard when you talk to a teacher.” (pg. 13)
I don’t agree with what Holden is saying at all. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Maybe the reason hes failing 4 out of 5 classes is because he doesn’t think too hard when he’s talking to his teachers.
January 3, 2009 at 7:43 pm
“When I really worry about something, I don’t just fool around. I even have to go to the bathroom when I worry about something. Only, I don’t go. I’m too worried to go. I don’t want to interrupt my worrying to go.”pg 40
LMAO! This sounds like me a little bit too much.Its stands out because these are things that Holden says that makes him interesting I can relate him to myself.
January 3, 2009 at 7:51 pm
“I mean most girls are so dumb and all. After you neck them for a while, you can really watch them losing their brains. You take a girl when she really gets passionate, she just hasn’t any brains.”pg 92
I think this quote is so true when it comes too teenage girls especially in this generation and according to my experiances. I have one girl who especially lost her brains and now makes no sense what so ever and has lost all self respect when it comes to me.Its hard not to take advantage.But it id a fact in our generation.
January 3, 2009 at 8:03 pm
“I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you’re dead? Nobody.”pg155
Im speaking ruthlessly right now.But I’m pretty sure religion has to do with burials. I agree with what Holden said.I love his chracther in the book i think he represents several of the last teenage generations very well as so far as in their views.
January 3, 2009 at 8:13 pm
In response to MTA and their comment on Holden being a sex addict
“Anyway I kept walking around the room, waiting for this prostitute to show up” (93).
I have a feeling Holden C. is a sex addict. He talks about doing it all the time. There was the time where is kept on breaking his codes or rules, Jane, and now a prostitute. Why is he going to have a prostitute anyway? Is it because it is cheap ? or maybe he just wants some sex, considering it has been a while.
Is he mentally unstable? Is everything he’s saying a lie?
Holden cant be a sex addict he just really wants to lose his virginity we all will or already have experianced that at one point of our lives.And which teenager isn’t mentally unstable the majority of us don’t know what we want don’t know what were in for.So yes he is mentally unstable but he not sick.And hes not lying he’s actually pretty raw and striaght up with what he says.
January 3, 2009 at 8:17 pm
In response to nineteen hugs
“I felt pretty hungry as soon as I had a cigarette” (105).
Any addication to anything is a nasty habit.But Phoebes parents aren’t bad parents all these kids are turning into their own adults if thats what they like to do let them the ,ost you can do is tell about the positives and negatives of drugs or anything else in that matter. All thse kids are rebels anyways theres no stopping them.
January 3, 2009 at 8:25 pm
5)
Holden does have a response on everything and points out the fake people around him.He has knack of finding out the bad aspect’s of the people around him, everyone of them. Holden’s views always change throughout the book makes him seem as a hypocrite i think he’s innoncent though. But he isnt a saint at all he’s a rebel thats what I like about him.
January 3, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
Yes they are seperate. But n0ot as he thinks it to be.Holden seperates himself from it both stages becuase he is so cynical of all the set ideas. I understand why he so confused it makes him seem like the bad person but he really is innocent just has trouble growing up.
January 3, 2009 at 9:32 pm
“No kidding, you gonna use your hound’s-tooth tonight or not? I spilled some crap all oover my gray flannel.”
“No, but I don’t want you stretching it with your goddam shoulders and all”. (pg. 25)
Holden was just telling Ackley how Stradlater is not a bad guy. He talked about how he’s a good guy and he’s generous. Now that he said that, Stradlater need something of his and he doesn’t wanna give it to him.
January 3, 2009 at 10:31 pm
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It’s awful. If I’m on my way to the store to buy a magazine, even, and somebody asks me where I’m going, I’m liable to say I’m going to the opera. It’s terrible ” (16).
I like this quote because it allows the reader to get an idea of Holden’s character. I don’t know what it did for other readers but it allow me to look at him as a comedian. And I kind of found it to be quite ironic yet amusing that he tries to lie yet he has absolutely no problem with honestly admitting that he is a horrible liar. It’s a cool quote.
January 3, 2009 at 10:33 pm
“I didn’t answer him. I didn’t feel like it. All I said was, “Ask her if she still keeps her kings in the back row.”
“Okay,” Stradlater said, but I knew he wouldn’t. “Take it easy, now.”
Stradlater asked Holden for a huge favor and Holden didn’t really want to do it but he didn’t want to say no. Then Holden asked Stradlater for a small favor and he knew Stradlater wouldn’t do it. I think Holden won’t write the composition for Stradlater because of that.
January 3, 2009 at 10:41 pm
KATZ
January 3, 2009 at 10:31 pm
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It’s awful. If I’m on my way to the store to buy a magazine, even, and somebody asks me where I’m going, I’m liable to say I’m going to the opera. It’s terrible ” (16).
I agree with KATZ in that this quote tells readers a lot about Holden. I think this quote illustrates Holden as very sneaky and very opinionated. Holden is someone who is not very trustworthy.
January 3, 2009 at 10:46 pm
KB2191
January 1, 2009 at 9:37 pm
“Oh, I feel some concern for my future, all right.” (p.14, 2)
I agree with KB2191. Holden says one thing but his action say something completely different. Even if he has concern for his future, he still for some reason doesn’t know that school is very important when it comes to his future. It’s either that or he’s just lying again
January 3, 2009 at 10:54 pm
“He started cleaning his goddam fingernails with the end of a match. He was always cleaning his fingernails. I t was funny in a way. His teeth were always mossy-looking, and his ears were always dirty as hell, but he was always cleaning his fingernails. I guess he thought that made him a very neat guy” (22).
I found this quote to be extremely amusing. The way he describes things is just so funny. This quote also show how descriptive he is. He notices things that others may disregard, Holden identifies it and uses it as a way to characterize the type of person the person he is observing is. It is also interesting that he likes to notice how people contradict themselves.
January 3, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Writing Prompt #1
Throughout the book Holden talks about his opinions of the difference between childhood and adult hood. Holden talk bad about older people when he goes to say good bye to old Spencer. He says how he hates to see old people in their pajamas and how he hates to see their chests and legs. Holden just looks at older people in disgust. I think he fits in as a child because of the way he talks about adults and how he’s proud that people say he acts very young.
January 3, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Writing Prompt #5
Holden acts as if there is nothing wrong with him and there is a lot wrong with everyone else. Throughout the book he expresses his feelings through criticism. Holden is far from perfect and there is a lot of bad things to say about him. When Holden goes with the fencing team to New York and leaves the equipment on the train, he makes himself out as a screw up and the more he hears about it the more it gets to him. This kind of thing gets Holden in a bad mood and it makes him feel like everything is his fault.
January 4, 2009 at 12:23 am
“One thing about packing depressed me a little. I had to pack these brand-new ice skates my mother had practically just sent me a couple of days before. That depressed me. I could see my mother going into Spaulding’s and asking the salesman a million dopy questions- and here I was getting the ax again” (52).
I like this quote because it displays the sensitive mature side of Holden. The fact that he was concerned about his mother and the way he is thinking about the time his mother took out to get him his skates show that he is very considerate. Unfortunately he continues to make horrible mistakes but he still thinks about the way others are affected by them.
January 4, 2009 at 1:09 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (Pg.8)
Holden’s teacher Spencer tells him this while having their conversation. Spencer knows that Holden is a good kid and very intelligent but he isn’t applying himself in school the way he should be. His teacher is trying to let him know that life is all a game and as long as he plays by the rules he’ll be fine.
January 4, 2009 at 1:21 am
“I told him how I would’ve done exactly the same thing if I’d been in his place, and how most people didn’t appreciate how tough it is being a teacher.” (pg. 12)
In this quote, Spencer is letting Holden know exactly why he failed him. Holden is now seeing this from his teachers point of view and now realizes how tough it is being a teacher and many people don’t realize it. Holden is now learning that Spencer did it for his own good.
January 4, 2009 at 1:27 am
“You will, old Spencer said. You will, boy. You will when it’s too late.” (Pg. 14)
In this quote Spencer is basically letting Holden know that he will eventually grow up and learn as to why things happen the way they do. This quote stuck out to me because I feel that it’s something that eventually Holden will look back on later on in the book.
January 4, 2009 at 3:29 am
i agree with the analysis Takadaku made about the quote based on society. That qoute is so true because in today’s lifestyle everyone needs to know how to go by society’s guidelines( rules) or else your going to lose and become lost.
January 4, 2009 at 3:35 am
i agree with NineteenHugs opinion about Holdem jumping to marriage. Its does seem kinda weird that he would feel that way so soon. And living in a cabin all your life seems really boring.
January 4, 2009 at 3:39 am
“If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you’ll probably want to know is where I was born and what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don’t feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth.” _opening words_
When i first started reading this i felt that Holden was a very confusing person. At first he wanted to share his personal background but then once he realizes what he is he no longer wanted to share.
January 4, 2009 at 3:42 am
“You could also hear old Ackley snoring. Right through the goddam shower curtains you could hear him. he has sinus trouble and he couldn’t breathe too hot when he was asleep. That guy had just about everything. Sinus trouble, pimples, lousy teeth, halitosis, crumby fingernails. You had to feel a little sorry for that crazy sonuvabitch.” _chapter 5_
This quote was interesting to me because of how well Holden described Ackley. He said so many negative things about the guy. All these things irritated Holden you could tell but he still felt pity.
January 4, 2009 at 3:48 am
“All morons hate it when you call them a moron.”
_chapter 6_
This quote is short but it says a lot. Holden, i think what he’s trying to say is that a lot of people are hypocrites. That people are so willing to judge others and criticize but when they are they don’t like it.
January 4, 2009 at 3:56 am
“I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.” _chapter 22_
Holden begins to realize that he is crazy while he says this because he is saying this to an innocent child(phoebe). His catcher in the rye fantasy reflects his innocence, his belief in pure, uncorrupted youth, and his desire to protect that spirit but on the other hand, it represents his separation from reality and his naive view of the world.
January 4, 2009 at 4:00 am
“The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. . . . Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different would be you.”
_chapter 16_
It is very symbolic how Holden uses “you” instead “me.” It seems to be anan obvious move that keeps himself from the process of change. But the impossibility of a fantasy is the tragedy of Holden’s issues rather than face the challenges around him, he retreats to a fantasy world of his own.
January 4, 2009 at 5:50 am
“Anyway, I kept walking around the room, waiting for this prostitute to show up. I kept hoping she’d be good- looking. I didn’t care too much, though. I sort of just wanted to get it over with” (pg.93).
I think this quote can show Holden’s attitude and minds well. We can understand that he is really interested in sex. And he wants to try it. Holden wanted to get Jane Gallagher at the beginning of the book and hope to have sex with her. This moment, he want to get the prostitute. However, he said that he did not care the prostitute’s looking. And he did not have sex with the girl and made the excuse to let her go. I dont understand why he has this action. He wants to try sex with the girl but did not at the end.
January 4, 2009 at 5:56 am
“The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. . . .Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different would be you”. (ch.16)
This quote reveals how Holden likes the Museum of Natural History. In his view, everything in the museum is silent and always be the same. He remembered the school trip to this museum. He want to have this kind of simple life. Different people go into the museum and look at the same things, however, they would have different feelings. That’s why he said “the only thing that would be different would be you”.
January 4, 2009 at 6:06 am
“Oh, I feel some concern for my future, all right. Sure. Sure, I do…But not too much, I guess. Not too much, I guess” (pg.14).
For the future, Holden did not pay lots of attention to it. The readers can understand that he did not care about his own future at all. He has already failed out of three different schools. At Pencey, he has failed four out of five of his classes and has received notice that he is being expelled. He totally hates the school and the classmates.
January 4, 2009 at 6:18 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.”
“…Game, my ass. Some game. If you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then it’s a game, all right—I’ll admit that. But if you get on the other side, where there aren’t any hot-shots, then what’s a game about it? Nothing. No game (pg.8)”.
I think this passage is important for the readers to understand Holden’s attitude and feeling. It’s the conversation between Holden and Spencer, who is Holden’s roommate at Pencey Prep. And this word shows Holden’s character well. Holden did not agree with Spencer that life is a game. Also, we can see that he feels lonely and victimized. People did not have the same ideas with him.
January 4, 2009 at 6:28 am
“One of the biggest reasons I left Elkton Hills was because I was surrounded by phonies. That’s all. They were coming in the goddam window” (pg.13).
When Holden explains his school life, he gave the people this answer. We can see that he does not like the school at all. For him, he thought most people are “phonies”. He can not bear and accept this issue, that’s the reason why he left. Also, Holden criticizes and philosophizes about people who are boring, people who are insecure and people who are “phony”. He thinks that adult’s world is stupid and phony, dirty.
January 4, 2009 at 6:35 am
In response to MTA’s response regarding the quote from pg.61, I can understand the quots better. I think he did well because he connected the real New York life in 1980 by talking about this quote. This scene is weird and make people have the special feelings. Also, we can see how Holden’s thoughts change by and by. And what cause him change.
January 4, 2009 at 6:42 am
Response to jazmine’s response on December 30, 2008 at 5:19 pm.
I agree with her opinion. I believe it is true. Money is very important thing in this world, especially in this big city New York. When a person can understand and agree with this sentence, I think it’s because he or she has already knew the truth of today’s world.
January 4, 2009 at 6:53 am
For Writing Prompt #2:
I think there are some patterns and scenes seem to emerge and change in his interactions as the novel progresses. In this novel, Holden talks about his different encounters in some different places with the people. At the beginning of the story, Holden knew that Stradlater spends the evening on a date with Jane Gallagher and thought Stradlater wanted to have sex with Jane. And it made Holden left the school earlier. Later on, when he returned to New York and stayed in Edmont Hotel, he saw a man putting on silk stockings, high heels, a bra, a corset, and an evening gown and try to be a woman. He also saw a man and a woman in another room taking turns spitting mouthfuls of their drinks into each other’s faces. All of these made his minds change a lot. He thinks the couple’s behavior is bad and he wanted to have sex.
January 4, 2009 at 6:54 am
In Response to “Jazmines” comment on
January 1, 2009 at 3:59 pm
I can agree with her when she says that Holden always has something bad to say about someone. It’s like he has some kind of hatred towards people for whatever reason . He is also very observant. It also seems as if he gets bothered easily by certain people since he’s always finding something to say about someone.
January 4, 2009 at 7:03 am
In response to “KB2191″ comment on
January 1, 2009 at 8:56 pm
“I like to be somewhere at least where you can see a few girls around once in a while.” (p.31)
I don’t necessarily thing that Holden is a better person when he’s surrounded or in the presence of a woman I just think that this was Sarcasm. In the beginning of the book Holden states that he is very sarcastic and sometimes people take it in a different way
January 4, 2009 at 7:07 am
For Writing Prompt #5:
Actually, I do not think that Holden often behaves like a prophet or a saint. He was pointing out the phoniness and wickedness in the world aroung him because he does not like them by his own feelings and thoughts. And Holden isn’t perfect as he wants to be. He seeks the innocent childhood. Holden is very interested in sex and cause him to get the girls for sex later on. However, when he has the chance to have sex with prostitute, he did not do it and let the girl go. For his own life, he fails out of four schools; he manifests complete apathy toward his future. All of these patterns can show that he is also phony and reveals his psychological problems.
January 4, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I agree with Takadaku when he says, “First one states that charm is not the only thing that would get a girl. It requires patience and other useful techniques” Many guys, even today, think that there are certain words and things you have to say and do to get a girl to like you. Yes there are universal things that almost all girls agree that they like and do not like that guys do but I don’t necessarily think that you have to charm a girl to be with her.
January 4, 2009 at 5:26 pm
In response to Cherry’s comment “we can see that he feels lonely and victimized”, I agree with her because he always seems to see on the outside of everything else. He always feels depressed and “crumby” all the time. He also dwells on the death of his brother Allie which may also be one of the many reasons he is the way he is.
January 4, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“In my mind, I’m probably the biggest sex maniac you ever saw.”(62)
I thought this quote was extremely interesting because he is always talking about how much he loves girls, how pretty they are, and him feeling sexy. However, he is still a virgin. This is what shocked me because they tell you this a while after he says this quote. Although in the real world there is a general perception that if someone brags about those kind of things too much, chances are they’ve never done it. I thought it was really funny.
January 4, 2009 at 5:38 pm
“I’ll pay you and all, but do you mind if we just don’t do it? Do you mind very much?” (96)
Here is Holden finally with a girl although she’s a whore. He tells her that he doesn’t want to have sex, that he would rather sit and talk. She doesn’t really like that but she tries sort of. I think this is funny too because earlier he was saying that he’s a sex maniac and that he would do a lot of stuff if he ever got the opportunity. Here he has the chance and he backs out because he “depressed”.
January 4, 2009 at 5:44 pm
I agree with Takadaku’s comment on the way Holden comments on everything around him. That was the first thing I noticed about him from very early on in the novel. He comments on the way the guys in his old schools behave, he observes actors and musicians in ways that others do not normally observe them. He assumes that actors are phony because they know that they are good performers. He also likes to assume what kind of lifestyles actors and musicians live and the way they treat others. I find that to be quite interesting becaus eat first you would think that Holden is just complaining, but when you really listen to what he is saying about the people it kind of makes since. It’s an interesting trait he has.
January 4, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I get an idea of where KB2191 is coming from when he/she says that Holden seems better when he is surrounded by the presence of women. But I think Holden enjoys being around the presence of anyone depending on who they are. Because honestly there are some women that Holden does not like being around. I noticed that throughout the novel that Holden tends to say that certain things are quite depressing. Normally he says that when someone says something or when he is alone, but mostly when he is alone. He would start a conversation woth anyone to keep himself from being bored. He started conversations with random cab drivers, women in a bar and even a little kid at the skating rank. He just likes to be around people.
January 4, 2009 at 6:10 pm
1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
I believe that adults try to make the realms seperate. As a young adult I don’t believe that they are that seperate. Ofcourse there are obvious things that make the two realms separate, such as the fact that children cannot work and are not able to live on their own. But in actuality there are times when children can give their input on certain topics, and their are moments when adults can kick back and relax and just be free nad careless. I believe that society tries to keep the two seperate that way adults can joke around then turn around and say “don’t joke around with me like that. I’m an adult.” If we try to combine the two just a little maybe adults wont stress themselves out too much and children wont get too frustrated with adults.
January 4, 2009 at 6:21 pm
2. The novel is structured around Holden’s encounters and interactions with other people. Does any pattern seem to emerge, or does anything change in his interactions as the novel progresses? How do Holden’s encounters with adults, children, women, and his peers evolve as the novel progresses?
I can definitely say that a pattern emerges in the way Holden interacts with other people. The only one that he is most different with, in my opinion is his little sister Pheobe and even with her he’s the same. I noticed that with his peers he like to clown a lot and with women he tries to put on his charm. When he is dealing with adults he is acquainted with he shows his youth but not too much, just enough to let them know he’s still a kid without allowing them to disregard the fact that he is a “young man.” With people he does not know, he tries to make them think he’s older but they can tell by how he looks that he is not the age he really is. With Pheobe he likes to show that he’s older without appearing boring. With her he is very loving and honest with her. On that note he does have a pattern, he shows similar patterns with certain people. With his friends he’s a clown, with unknown adults he’s suave and TRIES to appear older. With adults he know, he shows his youth and his maturity and with little Pheobe he shows his brotherly side.
January 4, 2009 at 6:33 pm
“I dropped old Pheobe’s record. It broke into about fifty pieces. It was in a big envelope and all, but it broke anyway. I damn near cried, it made me feel so terrible, but all I did was, I took the pieces out of the envelope and put them in my coat pocket. They weren’t any good for anything, but I didn’t feel like just throwing them away” (154).
This quote was extremely sweet. It showed what kind of big brother Holden was. And that is a sweet thoughtful brother. He could not stand the thougth of hurting Pheobe and throwing away what he bought for his sister. Holden is not neccessarily the most emotional person in the world so for him to feel that he would cry shows how important that album was to him and ho important it is to Pheobe. It also exemplifies how important it is for Holden to make his sister happy.
January 4, 2009 at 7:06 pm
“It was a helluva lot easier getting out of the house than it was getting in, for some reason. For one thing I didn’t give much of a damn any more if they caught me. I really didn’t. I figured if they caught me. I almost wished they did, in a way” (180).
I really like this quote A LOT. It showed that he realized that running away from home was beginning to be unneccessary. When I read this quote I kind of wish that he did get caught for the sake of Pheobe. He cried when it was time to leave so it obviously hurt him to go. I just wished that he got caught that night. Honestly I think that its a bit of a waste of time to stay away from home. At this time it was about two days until he was suppose to return home so he should have just stayed home and handle his issue the way a young adult, which he claims to be, should handle their issues.
January 4, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Writing Prompt 5
Holden is depicted as a hypocrite. He constantly has something to say about other people. All of which are negative. He is also just as them because of he acts just as everyone else but doesn’t want to realize it. Holden seems to have an issue being analytical about everything and one. It makes it seem as if he has a mental issue.
January 4, 2009 at 7:37 pm
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (8)
I like this quote because life is like a game. Life is a game that a person plays upon the rules they live in. Every person chooses the way they want to play the game. Mr Spencer tried to tell Holden and explain the meaning of life so he can see how it is in reality.
January 4, 2009 at 8:59 pm
“Oh… well, about Life being a game and all. And how you should play it accordingly to the rules. He was pretty nice about it. I mean he didn’t hit the ceiling or anything. He just kept talking about Life being a game and all. You know.”
This was the first quote in the book that caught my attention because those words fit into everyones life. When you look at the world in certain views you can see that we have to “play by certain rules” .. Or somethings might not workout. Also, I noticed how ‘Life” is capitalized, showing the reader that Holden takes it very seriously.
January 4, 2009 at 9:00 pm
“Anyway, it waspretty christmasy all or a sudden. A million little kids were downtown with their mothers, getting on and off the bus and coming in and out of stores.”(197)
This quote shows the really setting of New York at christmas time. Everyone at the stores shopping, all the decorations and people crowding the streets. I love new york at christmas time because there are so many pretty decoration almost evey store has decorations. I think it just lights up new york even more.
January 4, 2009 at 9:13 pm
“Oh well, about Life being a game and all. And how you should play it accordingly to the rules. He was pretty nice about it. I mean he didnt hit the ceiling or anything. He just kept talking about Life being a game and all. You know.”
This was the first quote in the book that caught my attention because those words fit into everyones life. When you look at the world in a certain view you can see that we have to “play by certain rules”… Or somethings might not workout. Also, I noticed how “Life” is capitalized, showing the reader that Holden takes it very seriously.
January 4, 2009 at 9:24 pm
“People never notice anything.” (9)
In this quote Holden says that he can change alot about himself and no one notices him. For example “Sometimes I act older than I am.” I think he should ignore what people think and just live life and don’t worry what others think.
January 4, 2009 at 9:31 pm
“Sex is something I really don’t understand too hot. You never know where the hell you are. I keep making up these sex rules for myself, and then I break them right away. Last year I made a rule that I was going to quit horsing around with girls that, deep down, gave me a pain in the ass. I broke it, though, the same week I made it – the same night, as a matter of fact.” (63)
It seem he can’t make any rules because he don’t follow. This was interesting because, its ironic that he don’t follow rules in school. He also don’t follow his own rules. So basically he is a rule breaker.
January 4, 2009 at 9:34 pm
“Game, my ass. Some game. If you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then its a game, all right- I’ll admit that.” PG. 8
This quote signifies that being in “a better crowd” is the real game… Trying to keep up with everything. But I think later on, we’ll learn that Holden doesn’t get pleased with that stuff.
January 4, 2009 at 9:50 pm
“No, you don’t. I’ve seen you, and you don’t, I didn’t say it nasty, though. I felt sort of sorry for him, in a way. I mean it isn’t too nice, naturally, if somebody tells you you don’t brush your teeth.” PG24
This quote doesn’t really have meaning to me but it brings the thought to my head that he pays attention to little things, you know?
January 4, 2009 at 9:50 pm
“Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell.” (113)
I agree with this quote because if you have limited money its hard to give away money. Like Holden he felt bad for giving the people 10 bucks and it made him blue because he had to save the money for old sally hayes.
January 4, 2009 at 9:58 pm
“I kept hoping shed be good-looking. I didn’t care too much, though. I sort of just wanted to get it over with.” PG 93
Holdens telling us he just wants to get it over with… I don’t think any guy wants to just “get it over with” maybe he should pretend he’s having sex with that other girl he liked.
January 4, 2009 at 9:59 pm
“I kept hoping shed be good-looking. I didn’t care too much, though. I sort of just wanted to get it over with.” PG 93
Holdens telling us he just wants to get it over with… I don’t think any guy wants to just “get it over with” maybe he should pretend he’s having sex with that other girl he liked.
January 4, 2009 at 10:06 pm
“The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. You could go there a hundred thousand times, and that Eskimo would still be on their way south, the deers would still be drinking out of that water hole…” PG 121
I think Holden enjoys the museum so much because he can pretend for a minute his life is like that. Everything being still and perfect.
January 4, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Response to Vanessa L PG 113
I agree with the quote and with her. In the begining I used life being a game quotes and I think money is part of that. No matter what, rich or poor, things go wrong.
January 4, 2009 at 10:27 pm
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It’s awful. If I’m on my way to the store to buy a magazine, even, and somebody asks me where I’m going, I’m liable to say I’m going to the opera. It’s terrible.” [pg.16]
-This quote states that Holden has self awareness, and is interesting because he knows he’s a liar without a reason.
“I’m not too crazy about describing rooms and houses anyway. So what I did, I wrote about my brother Allie’s baseball mitt” [pg.38]
- The hat was covered in poems which is why I think Holden chose to use it, because it was very descriptive.
“I had blood all over my mouth and chin and even on my pajamas and bathrobe. It partly scarred me and it all partly fascinated me. All that blood and all sort of made me look tough.” [pg.45]
- I think the thought of him being a tough person fascinated him because he’s not a tough person at all.
“The one thing I hate to do it go to bed when I’m not even tired.” [pg.66]
- This quote strikes me in a way that I agree with him. This is important because as a reader you almost feel connected to the character when they state how they feel.
“The cab I had was a real old one that smelled like someone’d just tossed his cookies in it.” [[pg.81]
- The way he speaks is interesting because it is unfamiliar, and i am not quite sure what he meant when he said “cookies”.
January 4, 2009 at 10:48 pm
PROMPTS:
3. Throughout the book, Holden longs for intimacy with other human beings. Discuss the different types of relationships Holden attempts and the different types of intimacy in the book. What is the role of sexuality in The Catcher in the Rye? How do Holden’s sexual relationships differ from his nonsexual encounters?
there is friend ship and sexual intamacy in the book..one relationship he has with a teacher mr antolini, he thinks he’s a good friend of his but mr antolini touches holden inappropriately confusiing holden and he doesn’t know if what mr antolini did was wrong or if he himself is just overreacting. He also goes to the movies with a girl named Sally , and he says to her that they should un away and live together in nature, of course that doesn’t work because he’s only 16 or sumthin like that. He thinks he’s more adult than he really is. In actuality he wishes time would stop, that he woudnt have to grow ip and deal with adult issues, and that’s shown at the museum exhibit where nothing ever changes. Holden is pretty much confused about his sexuality because he’s never had sex before with anyone or had a girfriendm he rethought he decision about running out of mr antolini house after he touched him proving that he wasn’t sure if what the teacher did was right or wrong and He has feelings for a girl named Jane bc she’s the only girl who he felt comfortable with who didn’t expect anything from him..he actual had real feelings for herbut never acted on them..she was his real friend.Holden doesn’t really have any sexual encounters except for kissing and things like that but it never progresses anywhere.There isn’t much differenec because he doesn’t go far. He wanted to have sex with a prostitute but was too scared to do it and that’s the same with his non sexual relationships, he’s always too scared to see what lies in the future.
1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
holden fits right in the middle of childhood and adulthood. He’s so afraid of growing up that he’s stuck and can’t get out. He feels adults are self centered, too serious and he wants life to be innocent and free. That’s why he wants to catch every child and save them from falling off the “cliff” which is aduthood..he wants to be the catcher in the rye.The two realms are extrememly separate to holden bc the way kids act and adults act are completely dofferent in the novel..kids have no worries and adults are worried all the time.Adults don’t care about their children and only care about drinking and sex and kids care about kid issues. The only adult like person in thenovel seems to be his lil sister who is theonly one who cares about his well being like a parent should
QUOTES:
1. “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.â€
“Yes, sir. I know it is. I know it.â€
Game, my ass. Some game. If you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then it’s a game, all right—I’ll admit that. But if you get on the other side, where there aren’t any hot-shots, then what’s a game about it? Nothing. No game.
This quotation is a lecture that Holden recieves from Spencer his old teacher. He is talking to him about his Pencey failure and why its important for him to play by the rules when dealing with things.During this conversation Spencer is really getting to him and is ilustrated in his body movements.
2. [Ackley] took another look at my hat . . . “Up home we wear a hat like that to shoot deer in, for Chrissake,†he said. “That’s a deer shooting hat.â€
“Like hell it is.†I took it off and looked at it. I sort of closed one eye, like I was taking aim at it. “This is a people shooting hat,†I said. “I shoot people in this hat.â€
This quote is a conversation with him and Ackley in his Dorm room. This hat is a symbol of Holden’s difference amongst people. Ackley calls his hat a deer shooting hat, however Holden uses the statement “This is a shooting people hat” to show his difference.
3. The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. . . . Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different would be you.
This quote shows Holden’s way of thinking. The Muesam is a symbol to him how he wants the world to be a place where everything is the same and the only thing thats different is him. Explaining that all the exhibits within the gallery is still “frozen” .
4. . . . I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.
This quote shows his innocence illustrated through his wants to be a catcher in the rye. Thinking of an somewhat utopian youth and childhood shows his unrealistic connection with the real world.
January 4, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Im Replying To Vanessa’s Quote I Agree With This Because Money Is A Big Issue And Can Make Or Break People And Situations. So Money Being Illustrated Throught The Color Blue Is The Ebst Way You Can Possibly Explain It.
January 4, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Writing Prompt #5
I don’t think Holden knows what type of person he truly is. It appears that he thinks he is the only genuine person that he knows and everyone else around him is phony. This may be proven true, because the people who he criticize are the ones that represent a corrupt society, such as the majority of Holden’s classmates who are the spoiled children of “money-grabbers”.
Writing Prompt #3
Throughout the novel, Holden continually talks about women, even though he rarely does much about it, as seen in the scene when he’s with a hooker in his hotel room, but then decides that he just wants to talk.His almost sexual relationships differ from his sexual relationships in way that he lacks creating sexual and intimate relationships with women.
January 4, 2009 at 11:15 pm
“God, I love it when a kid’s nice and polite when you tighten their skate for them or something. Most kids are they really are”(p119)
This specfic quote shows humerous Caulfield is,And it shows how he views certin people around him specifically little kids.
January 4, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Response to Jazmine: December 31, 2008 at 5:22 pm
You never know though. Even if it is a bit rushed for Holden to just want to marry, but sometimes being impetuous takes the push. Lingering around and thinking too much about marriage would only stall the person and make the decision more nerve wrecking. Not saying that Holden should marry her, just saying that if everything’s fine love and affection can grow afterwards since it is what he desires and what women can develop in time
January 4, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Writing Response #1
Holden loves his little sister “old Phoebe” and continuously praises her unlike the rest of the older characters in the book, such as to show the older people get the phonier. He goes back to reminiscent those times he played with his brother Allie and Jane. His coming back to New York and talking about memories represents his desire to go back in time physically and mostly mentally.
January 4, 2009 at 11:23 pm
In response to Cherry for Writing Prompt #5
I agree with her when she says
…”And Holden isn’t perfect as he wants to be. He seeks the innocent childhood. ”
Holden is trying to appear innocent but does not recognize his own behavior towards certain situations. He is the reason for his own failures, such as when he gets kicked out of school.
In response to MTA
December 27, 2008 at 7:41 pm
This scene does remind me a typical representation of New York City, and the wild night life it is known for.
January 4, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Writing Response #3
Holden might speak in a crude sexually hungry way, but somehow throughout the book, as he shares his mind with the readers, he only reminisces about those childlike times and not too much about sexual things. He certainly desires something real. As everything else around him is phony, he wants a real intimacy and as shown he has never been able to find it, till the end of the novel that is.
January 4, 2009 at 11:34 pm
“To tell you the truth, it was embarrassing, in a way, to be talking about Romeo and Juliet with her. I mean that play gets pretty sexy in some parts, and she was a nun and all, but she asked me so I discussed it with her for a while” (111).
Throughout the whole time he was with the nuns, I saw his calm and distanced respect when conversing with them. It surprised me in a way since along the book he criticized mostly everyone and especially women being the mostly phony. I guess he can still differentiate the realer things in life.
January 4, 2009 at 11:35 pm
In responce to Vanessa L quote “People never notice anything.” (9)
i agree that Holden doesnt really get noticed that much. He tries to hide his feelings alot to fit in with others.
January 4, 2009 at 11:40 pm
1)
“Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.”
“Game, my ass. Some game.” (8)
I like this quotation because it shows Holden’s refusal to accept the plan that’s been laid out for him by society (that is to say, his family, his school, his peers…). And yet, like so many other parts of this book, it shows him to be naïve in his disdain for everyone and everything around him as if he’s better or wiser. Most of the time he just proves himself to be as phony as the rest.
2)
“’Absolutely nothing,’ he said over again. That’s something that drives me crazy. When people say something twice that way, after you admit it the first time.” (10)
I’m choosing this quotation because it highlights one of the things that irritated me about the writing style. Holden says he can’t stand with people repeat something again and again, yet – again and again – Salinger has his characters repeat themselves. I’m not really sure what to make of that. I don’t know if he thinks he is making them sound more natural – and maybe that was the natural way New Yorkers talked in the 1950s, I don’t know. But it doesn’t sound natural now. It’s bizarre. So then I thought that maybe he did that to emphasize a point, but there are so many instances where characters say the same thing twice that it doesn’t really serve to emphasize anything at all. It’s just weird. It really is.
3)
“I started giving the three witches at the other table the eye again.” (70)
His mention of the three witches made me laugh since we’ve just finished Macbeth. He isn’t talking about those three witches specifically, but that’s what the words conjured to my mind and I began to wonder if the witches appeared to Holden Caulfield, what prophesies would they make for him? “Hail to thee, high school dropout!” “Hail to thee, mental patient!” “Hail to thee, who shalt be Catcher in the Rye hereafter!” Or something like that. Did you notice that he also mentions Beowulf at one point in the story…?
4)
“The only thing that would be different would be you. Not that you’d be so much older or anything. It wouldn’t be that, exactly. You’d just be different, that’s all.” (121)
This is from the scene where Holden is reflecting on the Museum of Natural History, how he’d go there every Saturday as a child and, although he’d be more or less the same child, small things about him would be different. He’d wear something different, or be paired up with a different student, yet everything else would stay the same. I think that this thought expresses the heart of Holden’s discontent. He reveres the authenticity of children and wishes that we would all just stay the same – like the museum exhibits – and that our changes would be inconsequential ones, like wearing a different scarf from one Saturday to the next. But life isn’t static, and the changes we go through are very grand in scale. Certainly, there are the small details of our lives – what we wear, how we style our hair, what movie we watch tonight versus tomorrow night – and those small details are important. They’re the color of our lives. But the bigger changes are just as important, as interesting, and as inevitable. The biggest part of Holden’s problem is that he can’t accept life’s larger changes, even as they’re happening to him. This is also expressed at the end of the book when he watches Phoebe on the carousel – a fun ride that goes round and round but doesn’t go anyplace different from one ride to the next. It’s always the same except for the different children who will ride it from one hour to the next. Holden loves it because it’s static and unchanging.
“’Is this going to be a typical Caulfield conversation?’” (145)
Luce says this to Holden when he agrees to meet him for a drink. He’s referring to Holden’s obsession with talking about Luce’s sex life – a subject that Luce really doesn’t feel like discussing with Holden. This comment reveals that A) there are expectations that spending time with Holden will lead to the same sort of conversation over and over again, and B) this conversation will be about sex. On the one hand, this fits in with Holden’s desire to live in a world that’s more predictable: he himself is pretty predictable when it comes to conversation with Luce. On the other hand, he hates people who say phony things, or, in other words, those who let their lives be ruled by social conventions (like saying the right things at the right moment, kissing someone’s ass just to get ahead). What could be more conventional than a sixteen year old prying into his buddy’s sex life? He tries to kiss Luce’s ass (so to speak) in order to glean a little bit of x-rated information to titillate his hormonal teenage mind. Maybe that’s a completely authentic way for a sixteen year old to behave and isn’t phony at all – but it’s also incredibly juvenile, and not in a cute way.
Short Response
Holden often behaves like a prophet or a saint, pointing out the phoniness and wickedness in the world around him. Is Holden as perfect as he wants to be? Are there instances where he is phony and full of hypocrisy? What do these moments reveal about his character and his psychological problems?
Holden is an interesting narrator. At sixteen years old, he’s on the cusp of childhood and adulthood, and that’s his problem. There’s the part of him that drinks and smokes and curses and things about sex all the time, and that part of him is very adult-like. The other part of him, the childish part, is the part that forgets the fencing equipment, wanders aimlessly, and feels frightened of sex despite thinking about it endlessly. He’s at an unstable point in his life, and to make matters worse, he has just been kicked out of school – again – and seems unable to make decisions that will put him on the path to any security in his future. He loves the fixed nature of the past and fears the unknowable future, so he’s not very balanced or, often, realistic. This being the case, he’s often full of hypocrisy and phoniness. He despises people who aren’t genuine, yet he also tells us that he lies all the time and is therefore not always genuine himself. He goes on and on about how authentic children are and how perfect that is, yet he no longer demonstrates the sort of innocence he admires. None of us do at this point in our lives, but he can’t accept that this is true for everyone, and that’s what drives him crazy.
The novel is structured around Holden’s encounters and interactions with other people. Does any pattern seem to emerge, or does anything change in his interactions as the novel progresses? How do Holden’s encounters with adults, children, women, and his peers evolve as the novel progresses?
Looking back on the novel, I can see a pattern in Holden’s relationships, but I don’t see any real evolution. Children are always authentic and great in his eyes. His peers at school are always flawed in some way – he’s still friendly with them and still interacts, but he makes a point of describing their social awkwardness or their phoniness at every turn. He lies to every adult and feels a sense of disappointment from every woman he interacts with – and he doesn’t mind their phoniness if he’s getting something out of it, which makes him phony. It’s interesting to think about, actually: none of his relationships with people are satisfying. The only exception is Phoebe, but you can imagine how badly she’ll disappoint him when she starts to develop sexually and behaves in ways that he thinks are phony to attract attention. Throughout the novel he fails to understand the complexity of human interactions; everything is black or white, phony or not. The reality is that we all have it in us to be “phony,” manipulative, unkind – but we also have the ability to be authentic, giving and caring. How we behave often depends on the situations we find ourselves in, but Holden’s judgment makes no exceptions for that.
Weirdo Hippie made the comment that Holden is one of those guys you can’t help but like. I’m not so sure. I think if he were alive today, he’d be the kind of cool hipster rich kid who hangs out at cafes and has nothing but disdain for humanity. That seems like a sad role to play in life. I knew someone like that in real life, and it’s true that his snarky, sarcastic outlook on life was often amusing, making him fun to be around for a little while. But over time I got to see how profoundly unhappy he was, how everything seemed so pointless to him – and then it became harder to be around him. So I don’t know about Holden. I think he’d be fun in small doses, but you wouldn’t like him as much if you really got to know him.
I like how Vanessa and others have noted that he not only breaks the school rules and society’s rules, he even breaks his own rules that he sets up for himself. Do you think that Holden’s lack of rules is part of his problem, ultimately? He talks about rules as if they are always a bad thing, yet I wonder if that is the point Salinger is trying to make with the book, given that Holden is such an unstable narrator.
January 4, 2009 at 11:46 pm
People always think something’s all true. ~J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye, Chapter 2
I personally feel this is accurate. I know alot of people that go off of word to mouth rather then facts. Thats the type of society we are in now where everything is “true” and some how everything may get told but the truth never unfolds about certain situation.
It’s really too bad that so much crumby stuff is a lot of fun sometimes. ~J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye, Chapter 9
Lol, We all can relate to this one. The things that are normally bad or forbidden are most desirable. Thats goes all the way back to adam and eve.
Sex is something I really don’t understand too hot. You never know where the hell you are. I keep making up these sex rules for myself, and then I break them right away. Last year I made a rule that I was going to quit horsing around with girls that, deep down, gave me a pain in the ass. I broke it, though, the same week I made it – the same night, as a matter of fact. ~J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye, Chapter 9
This is hilarious. He’s right though you shouldnt mess around with girls just for sex. I mean its attractive but it shouildnt be the only qulaity thats soley looked up for a connection in a relationship.
I was half in love with her by the time we sat down. That’s the thing about girls. Every time they do something pretty, even if they’re not much to look at, or even if they’re sort of stupid, you fall half in love with them, and then you never know where the hell you are. Girls. Jesus Christ. They can drive you crazy. They really can. ~J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye, Chapter 10
Girls just have that power. You could be the most unattactive being in the world but have pretty qualitie. I know ugly females that have pretty tendencies like hygiene or their style. But that only gets u so far.
January 4, 2009 at 11:46 pm
“Don’t you feel like talking for a while” (95).
Everything really does depend on his mood, even when the opportunity to de-virginize himself comes, he still doesn’t want to do it just because his heart’s not in it. I like his random sincerity.
January 4, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Responding to Vanessa comment about money. I agree money is something that can cause regrets. And the fact that he turned blue is ironic because thats a color you turn when tou cant breathe meaning money helped him live,supposedly.
January 4, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Responding to apple comment i dont think he’s being sincere i think hes just scared to honestly lose his virginity and his lack of sex causes sexual frustration making him moody.
January 4, 2009 at 11:51 pm
in respoce to roy’s quote“Almost every time somebody gives me a present, it ends up making me sad.”
i agree with roy when he says that this quote is funny..because it is and personally i can relate because almost every christmas my aunt buys me the same thing as my little sister.And i always act like i’m happy but really i’m mad because i think that yea i’m older now can you buy me something around my age level..lol
January 4, 2009 at 11:53 pm
“I paid her already. I gave her five bucks. Ask her,”(101).
I find it just hilarious a couple of dudes fighting over five to ten bucks in a hotel. you would think other things are more costly than that. For sure that’s how New York does things. Letting a bell-boy beat you up for 5 bucks more.
January 4, 2009 at 11:55 pm
“Oh well, about Life being a game and all. And how you should play it accordingly to the rules. He was pretty nice about it. I mean he didnt hit the ceiling or anything. He just kept talking about Life being a game and all. You know.
I agree with Mikki with this quote. It does apply to everyone.Life is a game its all about knowing how to play and who plays it the best.
January 4, 2009 at 11:59 pm
“Certain things should stay the way they are. You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases.And just leave them alone. I know that’s impossible but it’s to bad anyways.”(p119)
I chose this quote because i do agree with Holden because somethings shouldnt be tampered with.They should just be lefted alone and shouldn’t be touched but someone always ends up touching it anyways.
January 5, 2009 at 12:09 am
Response to Shannon Griffith: January 4, 2009 at 11:50
He might be nervous or whatnot but I’m sure if he did like the girl he would try even further than sitting on the couch and telling her to get off his “goddamn lap”, etc. I was just saying he’s the touchy feely kind of guy. He probably he does have sexual frustrations which causes him to prefer having sex with a girl he likes rather than some prostitute whose more advanced. Its still sincere.
January 5, 2009 at 12:12 am
“You dont always have to get to sexy to get to know a girl”(76)
I chose this quote because it was very funny to me.because it shows how confident he seems at times.
January 5, 2009 at 12:17 am
“Life being a game in all.And how you should play it according to the rules”(p8)
I chose this quote because i agree with the fact that life may somethimes feel like a game that you have to play by the rules but in reality the rules may sometimes be broken
January 5, 2009 at 12:28 am
“One of the biggest reasons I left Elkton Hills was because I was surrounded by phonies.” (p.13)
I understand his disdain for fakes. Although certainly being fake helps you be a little more considerate to the other part at some occasions. But if there is too much of it, you don’t even have a feel of whats real anymore and start to feel numb. I went through that once and almost quit, until i found the real and more in-depth things in life that makes my vision clearer.
January 5, 2009 at 12:32 am
“Dont ever tell anybody anything,if you do,you start missing everybody”(214)
I think this quote is signifant because it end the book and it leave you wondering what really is going through his mind
January 5, 2009 at 12:40 am
“ I certainly like to hear him play, but sometimes you feel like turning his goddam piano over. I think it’s because sometimes when he plays, he sounds like the kind of guy that won’t talk to you unless you’re a big shot.” (p.80)
His using the word “goddam” in most sentences cracks me up sometimes. Its a word I wont use just because it sounds a bit harsh, but its tempting since it sounds funny to be angry at everything. But despite of that, i think his marking those who think they’re a “big shot” and “yellow” proves hes got a “chip on his shoulders”.
January 5, 2009 at 12:41 am
“Do you feel absolutely no concern for your future,boy?” (Pg.14)
I think that Spencer is putting a lot of pressure on Holden because he knows that he is capable of doing a lot better, especially in school. He cares for him a lot and just wants what’s best for him. But I don’t think you could put full blame on Holden because he’s just a teenager and eventually he’ll learn to get his act together and think for the future but right now it just hasn’t hit him yet.
January 5, 2009 at 12:48 am
“I mean she’s had all A’s ever since she started school. As a matter of fact, I’m the only really dumb one in my family.” (Pg.67)
This quote stuck out to me because throughout the book so far Holden always had something to say about someone else most of the time in a negative way and now it’s like he brought out his soft side. You could tell that he’s close with his sister and admires her intelligence.
January 5, 2009 at 1:02 am
Writing Prompt #5
5. Holden often behaves like a prophet or a saint, pointing out the phoniness and wickedness in the world around him. Is Holden as perfect as he wants to be? Are there instances where he is phony and full of hypocrisy? What do these moments reveal about his character and his psychological problems?
- In my opinion, I don’t think Holden is a saint or is perfect at all. He always seem to observe people and their every move and i find that weird. He always has something to say about people as well as picking out their flaws but he doesn’t really realize exactly what he is doing. He talks a lot about people and what they do that to me he’s a hypocrite because sometimes he’ll say something about someone and what they do but he doesn’t realize that he does the same thing.
January 5, 2009 at 1:07 am
Writing Prompt #1
1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
- I believe that they are separate but not as separate as Holden believes them to be . I think that Holden fits in as a Child and an Adult sometimes. The things he says especially about people you would think it’s just childish but then again you would think he’s a very good observer so you would think he has an adult mentality
January 5, 2009 at 1:47 am
“Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.” (214)
I thought this quote was interesting because the way it ends. Holden remembers everyone and its hard for him because he misses everyone. I agree with this quote because you will remember many people.
January 5, 2009 at 1:54 am
Response to Micaella
I agree when she said, “When you look at the world in a certain view you can see that we have to “play by certain rules”… Or somethings might not workout.” I agree with this because its true if you don’t play by the rules that will affect your destiny.
January 5, 2009 at 2:24 am
“One of the biggest reasons I left Elkton hills was because I was surrounded by phonies”
I picked this quote because its shows that Holden did not really hold back anything he felt he had no tolerance for people at all, anything that he did not like or bothered him by any chance from a person he would speak out about it instead of holding it inside and saying nothing to them, it also showed that he had no patience to deal with people very much which is seeing throughout the whole book he was not a really good people person at all.
January 5, 2009 at 2:32 am
reply to jazmine
I also agree that New York really revolves around money a lot because to do anything and go anywhere you have to have money. Money is mainly like food you can’t live without it no one can the world functions with money, money talks.
January 5, 2009 at 2:37 am
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life”
This quote really cached my attention because I have never actually heard someone admitting that they are a good liar before and Holden actually admits to lying he actually says he’s good at it but the kind of lying that he does is not very serious lies there minor lies which in my opinion he just says small lies which really don’t have serious consequences.
January 5, 2009 at 2:42 am
Response to lovely
I agree with that quote life is a game and you do have to play it by the rules but if you don’t follow the right rules you won’t end up going the right way that’s why you have to take advantage of the opportunities you have in front of you because the only come once.
January 5, 2009 at 2:43 am
Response to Lovely
” I don’t think Holden is a saint or is perfect at all.” I agree with this because eveyone has their flaws. Everyone is not perfect in life and I agree with the opinion.
January 5, 2009 at 2:44 am
Reading Prompt #5
Holden is not perfect at all. He always seems to find something wrong with someone no matter who it is. He is phony as well he lies about a lot and picks out a lot of things that are wrong with people and the world but not really himself. He spends too much time noticing flaws about everyone else but himself.
January 5, 2009 at 2:47 am
“I’d rather push a guy out the window or chop his head off with an ax than sock him in the jaw”
This quote seemed really interesting to me because it shows that even though Holden is a guy which does not hold back on anybody anything he has to say to them he is not really the fighting type this quote showed me that even though he does not have any tolerance for people does not mean he would get into physical altercations with them he would rather argue than fight.
January 5, 2009 at 2:49 am
Reading Prompt # 4
I don’t think that Mr.Antolini was trying to “make a pass” on Holden i just think that he got a little ahead of himself and felt that it was his job to let Holden know how he feels about him growing up and doing what he does . Since he was once Holdens teacher and knows him very well he felt like it was his job to do so. And during this part in the book Mr.Antolini did have a lot to drink so maybe that plays a role in what he did and said to Holden.
January 5, 2009 at 2:51 am
Writing Prompt # 2
The novel is structured around Holden’s encounters and interactions with other people. Does any pattern seem to emerge, or does anything change in his interactions as the novel progresses? How do Holden’s encounters with adults, children, women, and his peers evolve as the novel progresses?
I think that Holden interactions is based on how he expresses himself. He tries to be older than his age. He says nobody seems to notice. I believe because he is not being himself. He is different with phoebe but thats it. It like he acts different to everyone and it makes it hard for himself. He acts different to kids women and adults and he just don’t act one way.
January 5, 2009 at 2:52 am
“They let me give them ten bucks as a contribution”
This quote stood out to me it showed how generous of a person Holden really is throughout the book he shows a lot of different sides of him some of which are good and bad and this time he did not really care if he stayed with no money as long as he made a good cause.
January 5, 2009 at 2:52 am
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It’s awful.” (16)
It is strange to me that someone will lie if someone ask you where you were going. Why will Holden lie to people and not telling them the truth of where he was going? I will lie to people if I don’t want them to know something bad about me.
January 5, 2009 at 2:56 am
Writing Prompt #1
1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
I think Holden is confused. There is a difference between adulthood and childhood. But in Holden case it isn’t much. Its like a balance he can fit in a childhood life and an adulthhood life. Sometimes the things he say can change alot about himself.
January 5, 2009 at 2:57 am
“Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do you start missing everybody.”
I really liked this quote because it is actually true and many people can relate to it when you are far away from home you won’t really start missing anybody until you talk to them because when you don’t speak to them you won’t really think about it at all until you actually speak to them and it finally hits you that’s when you notice that you actually miss them that’s why it’s better not to talk to them at all.
January 5, 2009 at 2:59 am
“[Allie] never got mad at anybody. People with red hair are supposed to get mad at anybody.” (38)
Why am curious of why Holden said that people with red hair will get mad at anybody. I know people with red hair gets along fine with people. He will get mad only if someone did something bad to him.
January 5, 2009 at 3:03 am
“Women kill me. I don’t mean I’m oversexed or anything like that- although I am quite sexy” (54)
This quote shows Holden as a funny character because a lot of people i know that said that they are quite sexy are funny. However, I wonder how women kills holden. In what ways do they kill him?
January 5, 2009 at 3:06 am
“Life is a game, boy.”
I agree with this quote because you control your life just like you control your character in the game. You could make your life in a positive way or a negative way.
January 5, 2009 at 3:15 am
Response to all prompts:
1. I think that the nature of childhood and adulthood, are different, and are meant to be different. Years ago things were different, but as we undergo evolution, everything changes. He would best fit in as a child/more likely leaning towards a typical teenager. His acts are not so unlikely. He’s cynical and hates people who he believes are phonies. And most teenagers are harshly judged and harshly critique each other.
2. Holden seems to interact with everyone quite well. By well, I mean normal. But in many ways As his behaivor progresses, I see him more and more as a phony. The part with him and Stradlater and he bloodies his nose is a great example. He takes out all his anger that has built up over the feelings he has for someone else. They reveal into an action. Instead of catching it while it was a mohill, and not a mountain. You would think that he somehow likes Stradler because he does his composition for him, but underneath he has mixed emotions all because Stradlater is dating Jane. A girl he likes, but communication died out, so him thinking about them too just came out in an unhealthy way.
3. One encounter I have to recall is the late night call for a stripper at the hotel. I guess he longs for sexual intimacy. Then He goes to the lavender room, and try to flirt with three women in their thirties. He must think he’s some kind of smooth guy. He falls half in love with a woman who dances well. I have seen some connection with the behaivor between the relationship with his peers towards relationships with women. I mean he seems isolated, so i’m guessing the love you don’t receive from those who are supposed to be closest to you, you try to look for in other people. So he doesn’t have any real friends, so to let go some kind of emotion, he falls back on women to ease the pain. I’ve seen this in many movies and tv shows. But the most special person to him is this jane gallagher.
4. Mr.Antolini’s actions was unacceptable. and I do believe that he was making a pass at Holden. I mean stroking his forehead while he’s asleep. I don’t know too many teachers that get close like that. Especially when they are the same sex. He’s just a little too close. I also think that there was some manipulation going on. Because I suspect that they have established a close relationship, because teachers just don’t let students come to their home. it’s very private to them. So Mr. Antolini tries to counsel Holden. I reckon he knows a bit about him. So I think he used what he knew to try to move in an inappropriate way. Holden must’ve gave him the wrong impression. Because that was definitely a pass.
5. Holden may know a lot about things and have seen a lot. but everyone is at fault and are imperfect. As much as Holden may want to be perfect and may think that he is, there’s always someone viewing on the outside and can easily point out your faults when you can’t see them. The same thing as he does to other people. I think Holden is just angry and resents a lot of people and is hesitant to get past what ever has happened to him. He doesn’t realize the good qualities or greatness in things. His psychological problems aren’t so uncommon. People go through this everyday. Being a teenager myself it’s I understand what he sees. I think as you grow older your perspectives change. He maybe a hypocrit but doesn’t realize that he is one or can’t catch himself when he’s doing it.
January 5, 2009 at 3:22 am
“Maybe I’ll go to China. My sex life is lousy.” (148)
I found this very racist against the Chinese. Holden was very surprise when he found out that Luce was dating a Chinese girl. What is wrong with other races dating a Chinese? This shows how immature Holden is and all he cares about his life is sex.
January 5, 2009 at 3:34 am
“I Don’t owe you five bucks” (102)
Wow, the way Holden was arguing with Chief and Old Maurice was very intense. I wonder how much five dollars is worth back then compare to now. I believe Holden should just paid up the extra five bucks since he should not be sleeping with a prostitute.
January 5, 2009 at 3:47 am
4) the most ambiguous encounter in the book is Holden’s night at mr.Antolinis apartment. What do you make of mr.Antolinis actions? Was he making a pass at Holden? What is the significance of his actions, and how do they relate to his role as someone trying to prevent Holden from “taking a fall”?
I think that he was trying to open Holden’s eyes finally to take charge of his life before is to late he should do something good with his life instead of ruining every chance he gets to fix it he was trying to give him a lecture to see if he would actually or finally listen and do something good with his life. I don’t think he was masking a pass at Holden I think he was just showing him sympathy for him because he feels the pain and confusion that Holden feels and wants to try and make him feel comfortable. His actions show that he really cares for Holden as a person and he believes in him that he would do something with his life sooner or later which actually relates to the caring and supportive role Mr. antolini plays in the book, he is the only person who really cares if Holden messes up in his life or not he actually wants the best for him and wishes he would want the same to.
5) Holden often behaves like a prophet or a saint, pointing out the phoniness and wickedness in the world around him. Is holder as perfect as he wants to be? Are there instances where he is phony and full of hypocrisy? What do these moments reveal about his character and his psychological problems?
Throughout the whole book Holden was always talking about the phony people around him and pointing them out but he was not as perfect as he made himself look like Holden was also a hypocrite he criticized people but after he would try and be friends with them when he needed them, he is also full of mixed emotions inside which not even he knew what to do with himself, he has problems with his past childhood which is kind of understanding because it gives you a hint on why he acts the way he does now. All this showed me that he really has issues with his life that he needs to resolve he had to face his fears and figure out what was making him feel so bad inside.
January 5, 2009 at 4:26 am
Prompts 5
I believe Holden is neither a prophet nor a saint. I don’t think Holden is as perfect as he wants to be because he himself is a phony and full of hypocrisy. He likes to have sex and drop out of schools many times. He talks negative things about other people when he also does the same thing as them which makes him hypocrisy.
Prompts 4
The ways Mr. Antolini touches Holden was weird and wrong. I believe he was making a pass at Holden. His action shows how corrupt the society is and it affects Holden’s ability to succeed. If I was Holden, I will run out of that apartment the moment a guy I’m not close with touches me while I am sleeping.
January 5, 2009 at 4:26 am
Response to Takadaku Prompt #4
I agree with Takaduka because liquid can cause people to do things they usually do. Moreover, I also agree how kids should not go to adult’s home even if it was just for lecture because you might not know what they will do to you if they were drunk.
January 5, 2009 at 4:32 am
Response to MTA Prompt #4
I agree with MTA on how it was nasty for Antolini to be touching Holden while he was sleeping. I don’t believe Antolini was trying to helps Holden get a hold of himself because the moment Antolini touches him, it will causes Holden to think the things Antolini said was all lies.
January 5, 2009 at 4:39 am
“You can’t stop a teacher when they want to do something. They just do it.” (11)
Its funny how an unanimous decision could be made by the students but the teachers just do it anyways. Like you tell them not to do something annoying but they do it anyways, leaving you trapped the whole class. This situation is really funny because teachers have the trickiest ways of getting to you.
“That didn’t interest Stradlater, though. Only very sexy stuff interested him.” (32)
People can be so perverted sometimes. They would not listen to anything you say, but the first moment something sex related comes up they get all interested. Especially true for surrounding people they could be sitting across the table doing their own thing once sex comes up they budge into the conversation.
“Some people you shouldn’t kid, even if they deserve it. (74)
I agree with this quote because some people take everything seriously. It could be a harmless joke but the other person takes it seriously and gets injured. This happened to me once too, i gave my friend something to drink and said it was “expired sprite” he drank a huge gulp and ended up getting sick. This was kind of stupid though cause i did say it was “expired” so why would anyone in their right mind drink a huge gulp anyways
“It was the phoniest conversation you ever heard in your life.” (127)
Phoney people can be so funny sometimes. When two phoney people get together their conversation would sound fake/weird, but when a phoney person talks with someone with knowledge and tries to play it off stupidity shows.
“You take most little kids, even if their parents are wealthy and all, they usually have some terrible dress on.” (160)
Money does not really matter you could be wearing the most expensive clothing available, but it can also be the most out of fashion one. Most parents dont know styles within kids, buying ones they think their children look “good” in.
January 5, 2009 at 5:04 am
4) Mr. Antolini should have done better, as a teacher he should have known that they are not allowed any contact with students. I think he was trying to make a pass at Holden as it does happen quite often in society. His actions are so hypocritical you dont try to protect someone then end up taking advantage of them when their vunerable.
5) I think Holden pretends to behaves like a prophet/saint because he wants himself to be perfect. He points out the flaws of other people and how he is the opposite. Nobody is perfect there are bound to be phoniness and wickedness in the world. Holden knows he is not perfect so he behaves saint-like to satisfy his perfectionism. There are many instances where he is phony and full of hypocrisy, such as the moments he smokes and drinks. If you point out the evils in the world shouldn’t you be the one not contributing? Underage smoking/drinking is also one of the evils in the world. Holden is spectating the world criticizing it while unconsciously contributing to it.
January 5, 2009 at 5:09 am
I don’t agree with Twilight (January 5, 2009 at 3:34 am), because while $5 may or may not be much no one wants to give money away. If i asked you for a dollar you wouldn’t want to give it to me, same is true if you borrowed money.
I agree with =) (January 4, 2009 at 10:06 pm), because i think Holden wants to be perfect. He criticizes everything while his life is no different. In a museum everything is perfect and trapped in time. Holden probably wants everything to be perfect and never change.
January 5, 2009 at 5:12 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.”
I look at life like a game because its like a mission. There’s always something people want to prove. Whether it’s to be better than someone, or just bringing your name out there. Completing tasks and doing things on time, it’s life. The character of Old Spencer is like Holden’s guidance sort of. He makes sure Holden know what he’s doing and allows him to think about his decisions; in order to play safe in the “game.”
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“One thing about packing depressed me a little. I had to pack these brand-new ice skates my mother had practically just sent me a couple of days before. That depressed me. I could see my mother going into Spaulding’s and asking the salesman a million dopy questions- and here I was getting the ax again”
This quote shows that he has a little child side in him. It kind’ve relates to me when mama bought me my first gameboy! Later on, I felt bad that she used money just to buy something that I want just because every one of my cousins have it.
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“Certain things they should stay the way they are. You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone. I know that’s impossible, but it’s too bad anyway” (p.122)
I like this quote because its straightfoward. He say things that is honest. Other people just say what others want to hear. I know people like that, and just wants to smack others that are just pretenders! Holden’s personality has different views from his childhood and adulthood.
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“I’m traveling incognito, I hate saying corny things like “traveling incognito.” “But when I’m with somebody that’s corny, I always act corny too.”
That was really random. But This reminds him of how I feel sometimes. I act corny at times when I’m with someone who says corny things. Mind as well go along. I say this speaks about the persons mind. They’re “free” thinkers and try to ignore reality when times are rough.
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“Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.”
I find this quote interesting because I like having that personality trait. I dont really say things that dont matter because I don’t think they care. and if they do care, they can use it against you and disappear.
January 5, 2009 at 5:18 am
I find what Roy said was interesting. He said at times, you need to have a fake smile on. “That’s the way the world is you have to be “fake” at times and put on a show and a smile even when deep down inside your not really in the mood to.” I can see where he’s coming from because people do that to move on in life or just to avoid certain things.
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I agree with Jazmine. Money is power; at times! It does shows the characteristic of New York. Being that New York is one of the most money-rich cities. That’s how life works around with, we all need money, but when you think about it, when is money ever enough..?
January 5, 2009 at 6:26 am
“(When he was talking with Ernest’s mother on the train). Man, Holden is so funny. I think he is a great liar, no wonder he is so likable. I wonder why does he lie so much. Does it help him hide his identity and who he really is?”
Response to Nineteen Hugs
I kind of agree to what they said about Holden trying to hide his identity. I believe that when someone brags about stuff or lies a lot, they’re just trying to cover up their realselves .. Which is what Holden is probably doing.
Ps- I think my comments are under different names sorry mr weber I guess I got mixed up
January 5, 2009 at 9:45 pm
1. “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.”
“Yes, sir. I know it is. I know it.”
Game, my ass. Some game. If you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then it’s a game, all right—I’ll admit that. But if you get on the other side, where there aren’t any hot-shots, then what’s a game about it? Nothing. No game. (Ch.2)
- This quote came from a conversation with Mr. Spencer and Holden. Mr. Spencer is trying to explain to Holden about do the right things and following all the rules. He keeps nagging him about the things that he is doing wrong. This quote is significant because it shows a key part of Holden’s character. Even though Mr. Spencer keeps going on about his lectures you see that Holden just listens even though he doesn’t agree with anything he is saying. From this quote you begin to see that Holden puts up this protective wall against the world.
2. The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. . . . Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different would be you.
- This quote is when Holden was going on his date with Sally. Holden loves the museum because it’s a place he feels the most comfortable being at. He feels like the life in the museum is nice because everything is still, quiet, and no one judging everyone. He likes the fact that he can go around the museum and make up his opinions about the statues and they won’t do it back. Looking in the museum that’s the life Holden wants to be in, somewhere nice and quiet where no one judges.
3. “I have a feeling that you’re riding for some kind of terrible, terrible fall. . . . The whole arrangements designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn’t supply them with. . . . So they gave up looking.”
This quote is around the time Holden had left his parents house and decided to go to Mr.Antolini, a person he trusts. This is when Holden comes into a big wreaking with his self. The conversation him and Mr.Antolini have leaves Holden very confused and upset. He is not quite sure what his decision will be. Mr. Antolini is trying to catch Holden during his falling point. He feels that Holden has separated him self from society around him and he is right because Holden wants to be isolated.
4. “Anyway I kept walking around the room, waiting for this prostitute to show up. I kept hoping she’d be good looking.”
- I found this quote very significant because with Holden there’s such a question with his sexuality. He doesn’t know how to embrace it, by this time he still doesn’t know how to open up. He is very nervous and decides not to go through with it.
5. “Then she really started to cry, and the next thing I knew, I was kissing her all over…”
- This quote is really important because it has a lot to do with Holden’s sexuality. This shows Holden’s way of not being able to control his body. He is not able to control his body enables him to control his world. Holden really wants to trap his innocence from his childhood but his ways stop him from taking over his innocence.
January 5, 2009 at 10:21 pm
1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
- Throughout the book Holden continues to want to cling on to his childhood innocence. All the while he can seem to control his sexual urges. He just doesn’t want to admit to himself that he is no longer the child he used to be. The two realms are so separate he finds himself in an identity crisis between his childhood and adulthood.
3. Throughout the book, Holden longs for intimacy with other human beings. Discuss the different types of relationships Holden attempts and the different types of intimacy in the book. What is the role of sexuality in The Catcher in the Rye? How do Holden’s sexual relationships differ from his nonsexual encounters?
- There are many relationships that Holden runs into that were not sexual and sexual. One relationship would be Holden and his brother who he idolized for a while. When his brother starts to write for Hollywood Holden thinks he is a phony and calls him a prostitute. One close relationship would be Holden and Robert. Besides Robert’s horrible hygiene Holden has much respect for him anyway. Concerning with Holden’s sexual relationship it becomes an issue in the book with his immaturity with sex. When the prostitute comes to his room he doesn’t go through with it becomes he was ultra nervous. Other times Holden can’t control his sexual urges. So to answer your question both relationships don’t really differ because he finds adults and women phony and tries to stir away from that.
January 5, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Vanessa L
January 5, 2009 at 2:56 am
Writing Prompt #1
I don’t agree with Vanessa because Holden wants to have a balance between the two but in reality that can’t happen. He wants to keep his innocence but explore his sexuality, it doesn’t go hand in hand. Sex and Innocence can’t mix.
Twilight
January 5, 2009 at 3:34 am
I don’t agree with Twilight either because he didn’t have sex with the prostitute, so should he have to pay. t wasn’t even his idea in the first place to call on a prostitute.
January 6, 2009 at 2:46 am
Writing prompt 5
Holden is many things, but a saint or prophet is definatly not one of them. Holden is far from perfect, and very far from saint-like. He is quite strange actually. He observes people a little bit too much into context. And from that he makes people very aware of all their flaws, not noticing he has the same flaws. Making him pretty hypocritical if anything.
January 6, 2009 at 2:57 am
Writing prompt 4
The situation with mr Antolini and holden was quite strange.
I Dont really know what to think of it. I mean, i believe that Mr Antolini’s words were sincere and from the heart, and he was genuinly trying to help holden. But then again, he was driking alot, and the way he stroked Holdens head while holden was sleeping was a bit creepy, and not apropriate.
January 6, 2009 at 3:08 am
“My brother Allie…He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine, on July 18, 1946. You’d have liked him” (38).
The story that Holden told about his brother was very touching. I would’ve never knew that Holden had a little brother. In the beginning of the book, he didn’t mention anything about deceased brother. I think it affects him greatly, but he holds everything inside. He must be a strong person despite his personality.
RESDPONSE TO MTA
I Agree, i think that despite Holdens somewhat rude personality, he actually strong, in the fact that he delt with the death of his brother. But managed to keep it inside, which has to be hard.
January 6, 2009 at 3:10 am
“I certaintly like to hear him play, but sometimes you feel like turning his goddam piano over” (80).
I found that quote to be so funny. I was really cracking up when I read it. Infact, I even had to call my boyfriend and tell him about it. Unfortunately, he didn’t see the humor in it as I did, but that’s too bad. I love that Holden has a sense of humor. I laughed so much while reading this book. It really made this book a joy to read.
RESPONSE TO NINETEEN HUGS
I agree, I cracked up when i read this quote, it is suprising the humor that Holden has, but its great.it really did make the book a ton more interesting.
January 6, 2009 at 9:49 pm
” I was surrounded by jerks.”..”.At this other tiny table,right to my left, practically on top of me, there was a funny-looking guy and this funny-looking girl.” (pg 85)
Holden is way to Observant, in a negative way. He always watches people, as if they mean something to him. And he always comments on them, pointing out things about him, like in this quote, he is just watching two people, and says they are “funny-looking.”
January 6, 2009 at 10:03 pm
“She really was a moron”.-71
This is another example of my previous post.
He continually comments on people negativly. Saying they are funny looking, or a Moron, its so unnecessary.
I think he has alot of problems of his own, so he puts other people down to make himself feel better, like he is better then everyone else.
January 6, 2009 at 10:07 pm
“I’m the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It’s awful.” -16
Its weird. Most people wouldn’t want to admit to lying so much, but its as if he wants to show it off. He is really a strange character, there is definatly something strange about it that i can’t put my finger on.
January 6, 2009 at 10:10 pm
“It isn’t very serious. I have this tiny little tumor on the brain” -58
Just like my above post, about holden lying, it just gets more pitiful.
Does he think that this is going to make people feel bad for him?
Why does he want people to feel bad for him?
Its as if he makes up his whole life, just to be someone he wants to be.
He isn’t truely himself, he molds himself into waht he wants people to think he is.
January 6, 2009 at 10:15 pm
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game..” -8
This quote is used TOO often. Life is not a game, and i think people who have that particualr state of mind, dont care as much about life as others. I dont think life is a game at all
January 8, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Writing prompt 1. Think about Holden’s vision of the nature of childhood and adulthood. Are the two realms as separate as Holden believes them to be? Where does he fit in?
The two “realms” of childhood and adulthood are extremely different. As a child you are truthful, pure and open minded. Free if you want to call it. When you start to become an adult you lose that innocence and you’re not as pure, open-minded and trusting as you used to be. Holden doesn’t really know where he fits in. He sometimes behaves like a child and speaks his mind like a child. Yet he wants to drink, have sex and he lies all the time. He’s battling with growing up and it’s driving him mad.
January 8, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Writing prompt 5. Holden often behaves like a prophet or a saint, pointing out the phoniness and wickedness in the world around him. Is Holden as perfect as he wants to be? Are there instances where he is phony and full of hypocrisy? What do these moments reveal about his character and his psychological problems?
I think that the things that Holden says about other people and how they are is a way of him trying not to think of himself as being that way. He feels that if he can take his own attention of himself and criticize everyone else that it’ll be better. He is hypocritical because he calls people liars and phonies yet he lies and pretends to be someone he’s not all the time. He admits it but can’t admit that he is a hypocritical phony. I think it shows that he has a hard time figuring out who is is or what he’s trying to be. He take his views on himself and puts it on everyone else so he’s not the bad guy.
January 9, 2009 at 1:45 am
”I wasnt suppouse to come back after christmas vacation , on account of i was flunking four subjects and not applying my self and all”. (PG 4)
I choose this quote because i remeber when i wasnt able to stay over my family house because of my horrible grades.
I dont care if its a sad good-bye or a
bad good-by,but when i leave a place i like to know im leaving it, you feel even worse”. (PG 4)
I choose this quote because when i was younger my grand father died & my aunt took me away from my grand father’s house. I never understanded his motive for leaving me with her because i never had a relationship with her like i was suppouse too growing up as a child.
”whats the matter with you boy”(PG 10)
I choosed this qoute because i rememeber when i use to get lectured by my grand father about fighting in the Neighberhood or school. My grand father reminds me of old man spencer because my grand father always wore a robe around the House.
” I know that,sir. Boy,I know it. you couldnt help it” (pg 10)
This quote reminds me of me and my grand father so much it’s really scary because my grand father would of said the same thing too me ”Boy,i know it. You couldnt help it”
”Do you feel absoluetly no concern for your future,boy?”(pg 10)
I really didnt understand life when i was younger but my grand father always told be amongst all men so this quote reminds me of that the time when he said that too me.
Question 1
I think Holden wants to be a kid forever. He haves the analogy that aldults only think about having sexual encounters with each other & use drugs plus drink liqour. I understand & respect Holden’s opinon because you have to face reality when your a grown man.
Question 5
I dont think Holden thinks he is perfect but his intensions is too be perfect one day. I think Holden is a lost cause because he is a young adult, He’s starting to understand life and responsiblities. Holden doesnt want to grow up & live life like his older peers so in his mind he is living life perfect. When i was younger i thought i was the one that was perfect because i wasnt living life wreckless but at the end of the day where all human beins and we do make mistakes.
RESPONSE
Im responding to mikkis quote that shannon touched on “Oh well, about Life being a game and all. And how you should play it accordingly to the rules” I dont agree with shannon i dont think life is a game because thier is no time outs in life. Life is reality not a game that can be public to the world, you make your own ruels in life.
I am responding to vannesa quote ….
“Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody” i agree with this quote because if you have a relationship with some one that person should be thier by your side, you shouldnt be reminiscing about some one if thier still alive & breathing.
January 9, 2009 at 1:58 am
mr weber i did it and it says it has been a error whats up with that???
January 11, 2009 at 4:58 pm
“I don’t even know what I was running for I guess I just felt like it.”
I choose this quote because I feel I can relate to it.I myself do things without knowing why I did it.I either regret it or don’t regret it in the end.I feel the things I do are for a reason so I should’t regret it.
January 11, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“People never notice anything.”
I choose this quote because I feel it’s true. You may do something new and people just don’t notice unless you point it out to them.Then again people are only worried about themselves and you noticeing things about them.Everyone in this world can definitely relate to this quote.
January 11, 2009 at 5:06 pm
“People never believe you.”
The reason I choose this quote was believe I know from experoence it’s hard to get someone to believe you especially when you’ve lied to that person alot. It’s hard to make someone believe you after you’ve constantly lied to them after awhile you just get frustrated and leave it alone.
January 11, 2009 at 5:09 pm
“Sensitive. That killed me. That guy Morrow was about as sensitive as a toilet seat.”
I choose this quote because I found it funny and i can relate to it. I don’t really like people that are to sensitive it just bothers me for some reason.
January 11, 2009 at 5:18 pm
“Some things are hard tot remember. I’m thinking now of when Strandlater got ack from his date with Jane. I mean I cant remember exactly what I was doing when I heard his goddam stupid footsteps coming down the corridor”-pg 40
This clearly shows that Holden complains completly tooo much for no reason at all.I dont understand how he could possibly say “his goddam stupid footsteps”. That is high unacceptable.
January 11, 2009 at 5:21 pm
“…I’d just got back from New York with the fencing team. I was the goddam manager of the fencing team. Very big deal.”
I’ve come to realize that he uses goddam ALL the time. Like he have a problem with the world.
January 11, 2009 at 5:21 pm
“If a girl looks swell when she meets you, who gives a damn if she’s late?Nobody.”
I choose this quote because I feel that it shouldn’t matter whether the girl looks nice or not if you really like her then you would feel it was worth the wait. Guys need to realize it’s not all about looks.
January 11, 2009 at 5:23 pm
I started giving the three witches at the next table the eye again. That is, the blonde one. The other two were strictly from hunger. I didn’t do it crudely, though. I just gave all three of them this very cool glance and all.”-pg 70
I didnt know that he had game like that.He kind of do the same thing that males do in this period of time.
January 11, 2009 at 5:25 pm
” I saw one guy , a gray-haired, very distinguished-looking guy with only his shorts on, do something you wouldn’t believe me if i told you. First he put his suitcase on the bed. Then he took out all these women’s clothes, and put them on.”-pg 61
Now that is clearly insane to do. I see that some people just have there screws loose in there heads.
January 11, 2009 at 5:25 pm
I agree with langie246 nobody wants to give away money because it’s really a precious thing. Even when you borrow you have to give it back so either way money is always somthing people want and need.
January 11, 2009 at 5:27 pm
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.”
“Yes, sir. I know it is. I know it.”
This quotation is from Holden’s conversation with Spencer in Chapter 2. His former teacher is needling him about his failures at Pencey; at this point, he lectures Holden about the importance of playing by the rules.
January 11, 2009 at 5:27 pm
” I didn’t feel much like going. I’d made that damn date with Sally, though.”-pg 122
I dont understand why he’s acting like he didnt want to go out with Sally and he likes her. But to each its own I guess.
January 11, 2009 at 5:29 pm
[Ackley] took another look at my hat . . . “Up home we wear a hat like that to shoot deer in, for Chrissake,” he said. “That’s a deer shooting hat.”
“Like hell it is.” I took it off and looked at it. I sort of closed one eye, like I was taking aim at it. “This is a people shooting hat,” I said. “I shoot people in this hat.”
This brief passage occurs in Chapter 3, after Holden has returned to his dorm room and is being pestered by Ackley. Of all the places in the novel where Holden discusses his hat, the most famous and recognizable symbol in the book.
January 11, 2009 at 5:29 pm
“At the end of the first act we went out with all the other jerks for a cigarette. What a deal that was. You never saw so many phonies in all your life, everybody smoking thier ears off and talking about the play so that everybody could hear an dknow how sharp they were.”- pg 126
It is indicated that Holden is very VERY opinionated. He seems to think that EVEYONE is phony but him. Its a sad sight.
January 11, 2009 at 5:30 pm
I agree with twlight you are in control of your life. The things that happen in your life may be out of your hands but the way you handle it is all on you.
January 11, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. . . . Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different would be you.”
This passage, in which Holden explains why he loves the Museum of Natural History, is located in Chapter 16. Killing time before his date with Sally, Holden decides to walk from Central Park to the Museum of Natural History.
January 11, 2009 at 5:32 pm
I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d just be the catcher in the rye and all.”
They talk, argue, and then reconcile, and Phoebe asks Holden what he wants to do with his life. Holden responds with this image, which reveals his fantasy of idealistic childhood and of his role as the protector of innocence.
January 11, 2009 at 5:33 pm
“I have a feeling that you’re riding for some kind of terrible, terrible fall. . . . The whole arrangement’s designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn’t supply them with. . . . So they gave up looking.”
-He goes to Mr. Antolini’s because he feels he can trust and confide in him—it seems to be his final chance to save himself. But Holden’s interaction with Mr. Antolini is the event that precipitates his full-blown breakdown.
January 11, 2009 at 5:36 pm
In Response To:
Lovely
January 4, 2009 at 1:09 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (Pg.
Holden’s teacher Spencer tells him this while having their conversation. Spencer knows that Holden is a good kid and very intelligent but he isn’t applying himself in school the way he should be. His teacher is trying to let him know that life is all a game and as long as he plays by the rules he’ll be fine.
I agree with lovely. My parents tell’s me this all the time. That its a game in the real world. And if I play it right, then i would be sucessful in life. I take that quote to heart everyday.
January 11, 2009 at 5:37 pm
In Response To:
Lovely
January 4, 2009 at 1:09 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (Pg.
Holden’s teacher Spencer tells him this while having their conversation. Spencer knows that Holden is a good kid and very intelligent but he isn’t applying himself in school the way he should be. His teacher is trying to let him know that life is all a game and as long as he plays by the rules he’ll be fine.”
I agree with lovely. My parents tell’s me this all the time. That its a game in the real world. And if I play it right, then i would be sucessful in life. I take that quote to heart everyday.
January 11, 2009 at 5:39 pm
In Response To:
Twilight
January 5, 2009 at 3:34 am
“I Don’t owe you five bucks” (102)
Wow, the way Holden was arguing with Chief and Old Maurice was very intense. I wonder how much five dollars is worth back then compare to now. I believe Holden should just paid up the extra five bucks since he should not be sleeping with a prostitute.”
I disagree with twilight. Why shouldn’t he be sleeping with a prostitue? I dont believe that it was a law back then saying that its illegal.
January 11, 2009 at 5:39 pm
In Response :
Twilight
January 5, 2009 at 3:34 am
“I Don’t owe you five bucks” (102)
Wow, the way Holden was arguing with Chief and Old Maurice was very intense. I wonder how much five dollars is worth back then compare to now. I believe Holden should just paid up the extra five bucks since he should not be sleeping with a prostitute.”
I disagree with twilight. Why shouldn’t he be sleeping with a prostitue? I dont believe that it was a law back then saying that its illegal.
January 11, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Writing Prompt # 5:
Holden is not as perfect as he wants to be. If he was, he wouldnt be so opinionated about other people. I do believe that he is very phony and full of hypocrisy. All he do is judge other people but never talks about himself. In conclusion, I believe that he needs to start going to church to find himself.
January 21, 2009 at 1:41 am
“Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” (8)
Mr. Spencer says this to Holden because Holden had told him, that was what Dr. Thurmer had told him. is ironic because Holden never thinks that life is a game. He is really serious about life and doesnt like the rules dats given to him by wat he calls” phony adults”.
January 21, 2009 at 1:57 am
“My brother D.B.’s a writer and all, and my brother Allie, the one that died, that I told you about, was a wizard. I’m the only really dumb one.” (67)
This quote shows that Holden has no self confidence in himself. He also believe that he is a dissapointment and a failure to his family.